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Original poster

Is Ed Miliband responsible for the state we are in?

89 replies

IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:02

By running against his brother for party leader, changing the rules to vote for Labour leadership (enabling Corbyn's rise) and refusing to support Cameron in Obama's desire to move into Syria I read an article that blamed Brexit and Trump on Ed. Is this reasonable to make one person responsible for so much?

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OnlyFoolsnMothers · 20/07/2019 20:19

Blair is responsible for majority:

The wars
The Eastern European migration into the UK that could have been more gradual had be put the initial limits on the numbers
The over spending in the public sector that couldn’t be sustained

Eugh!!! Vile human being, bailed before he could be held accountable

Imstickingwiththisone · 20/07/2019 20:16

I think that both conservatives and labour were haemorrhaging votes to UKIP in protest, such was the one sided reporting by some of the biggest newspapers. I wouldn't like to say that David milliband wouldn't have agreed to a referendum evenetually in order to draw a line under the whole issue. Everyone was overconfident of a remain vote which would have put it to bed, unfortunately it rumbles on.

bellinisurge · 20/07/2019 20:08

He didn't alter history. This is how stuff is. If the Labour Party has backed Barbara Castle, maybe she would've been the first woman Prime Minister and put both the Tories and union barons in their place. I'm afraid things are the way they are.

Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 20:00

BIWI yes, and the point of this thread is that his leadership decisions are partly responsible for where we are today. My point wasn't that he shouldn't run against his brother only that by choosing to do so he altered history

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Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:58

Saskia these are not my personal opinions but of the writer of the article I read. His theory was that because Ed did not support Cameron when Obama asked the UK for support going into Syria. So Cameron turned Obama down and Obama then did not intervene in the early stages of the Syrian civil war.

The resulting escalation of the war in Syria and the refugee crisis in Europe brought immigration to the top of the political agenda in UK and the US. Popularism was on the rise and Trump used images of Syrian refugees by their thousands walking into Europe PLUS the terrorism of 2015, combined with illegal immigration in the USA to frighten the right-wing of the American electorate.

However the theory falls somewhere there as Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million votes. Trump won the electoral college.

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BIWI · 20/07/2019 19:56

by running he changed the outcome of the leadership election which almost certainly would've gone to David who had been chosen by a majority of MPs and individual Labour party members.

So what? David wasn't chosen in the end! That's what elections are all about!

SaskiaRembrandt · 20/07/2019 19:53

PerkingFaintly I know! They screw up over and over again, and somehow manage to convince enough people that it really isn't their fault, and then get reelected as the strong, stable party.

PerkingFaintly · 20/07/2019 19:51

And still I see people parrot on here some idea that the Tory party is the competent party, the party that knows how to run a business. Grin

I'd love to get a job where I could fuck up that badly and still have people blaming some other guy years later.

ContactLight · 20/07/2019 19:49

Ed Milliband didn't ask to be born - I blame the parents!

AppleHEAD · 20/07/2019 19:48

I think David Milliband would have been elected PM. The moment he was beaten I knew we were in trouble. Ed is great but not PM material. Now we are double screwed with Corbyn who will never resign because he has no self awareness and is surrounded by deluded loons. I want the bloody conservatives out but we have no hope with corbyn.

PerkingFaintly · 20/07/2019 19:47

The list of things that Cameron was "surprised at" and "didn't expect" is even longer than the list of things that are #nickcleggsfault.Grin

His Director of Communications, Andy Coulson, turning out to be a bad'un after Cameron employed him while he was still being paid by Rupert Murdoch and had no security clearance... Remember that one?

SaskiaRembrandt · 20/07/2019 19:46

Also, OP, can you explain how Ed Miliband is responsible for Trump? Is he some kind of evil genius who used mind control to influence the American electorate?

Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:45

Perking I disagree, I think the Conservatives did realise it. That's where Cameron's popularity came from as he was able to present himself as a moderate and more of a centrist . With Labour moving left Cameron won the middle (unexpectedly), also because of course Cleggy had sunk the Liberal Democrats. Unfortunately for Cameron the Tories then were dragged to the Right by the Eurosceptics.

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SaskiaRembrandt · 20/07/2019 19:45

And all of what you say excuses and nullifies the lies Leav e has propigated? The biggest villain (despite the outright lies, and the cowardice, the "putting party before country" ((Cameron, May, Johnson)), is the Labour party?

Yes, because some people will cast around for any scapegoat rather than accept the fact that the Tory party have, once again, put their own survival above the best interests of the country.

NoHummus · 20/07/2019 19:44

Don't blame poor Ed, blame the person who handed him the bacon sandwich! Wink

SaskiaRembrandt · 20/07/2019 19:41

The Tories moved to the right because New Labour had previously moved to the right and taken the centre ground.

Yes, this.

user1471453601 · 20/07/2019 19:41

And all of what you say excuses and nullifies the lies Leav e has propigated? The biggest villain (despite the outright lies, and the cowardice, the "putting party before country" ((Cameron, May, Johnson)), is the Labour party?

Really??

PerkingFaintly · 20/07/2019 19:39

The Tories didn't move to the right because Labour moved to the left!

The Tories moved to the right because New Labour had previously moved to the right and taken the centre ground.

Labour swinging left again left a huge middle ground open for the Tories to take, but the current crop (who are not the finest the party has ever fielded

Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:38

BIWI it's not a case that he shouldn't run against his brother, only that by running he changed the outcome of the leadership election which almost certainly would've gone to David who had been chosen by a majority of MPs and individual Labour party members.

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Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:34

user well Ed changed the rules of the party to elect a leader and I don't think anyone would think we would have Corbyn as leader without those changes. By Labour moving further left it has helped polarize the nation as the referendum took the Tories to further right.

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howwudufeel · 20/07/2019 19:33

I think David Milliband is a brilliantly talented politician. I was devastated when he lost the leadership to his brother and I really hope he will return to politics one day.

Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:32

User well even Cameron was surprised at how unpopular Ed was and never expected to have a majority government. Although of course he was a very weak and incompetent leader for having the referendum when he didn't want to leave the EU.

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user1471453601 · 20/07/2019 19:31

But all of that has fuck all to do with the state we are in. It might make Labour less able to fight against where we are, but they most assuredly did not put us here

SaskiaRembrandt · 20/07/2019 19:30

JustAnotherPoster00 Grin

Original poster
IdaBWells · 20/07/2019 19:27

He was working against the will of his own party, who had all (except the Unions) chosen his brother, as it was only through the support of the Unions that he won. Although of course the Unions began Labour, so it's how much power you think Unions should have in choosing the leader.

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