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Politics

Who wants to join with me to vent about Corbyn?

58 replies

allthatmalarkey · 17/01/2019 20:19

Please come and commiserate with me, or better still, help me think of something we can do. Jeremy Corbyn and his faction are an abject failure as a progressive opposition. With the party hijacked by his devotees, it’s unlikely he will be replaced as leader regardless of how many elections he loses (for my explanation of the word hijacked see * below to save me posting further). The Greens (still too small) and the LibDems (too much baggage) are in no position to fill the vacuum. The SNP are the SNP.

Is there anything progressive voters can do? It feels wrong to ditch the Labour party after all the history and all the sacrifice people like my parents made for it, but is this the time to start a new party? For me, our politics have reached such a stalemate that we need parties who expect to be in coalition, know how to stay on good enough terms to do deals with opponents and to make compromises. I also feel that first past the post is way past its sell-by-date – Theresa May seems oblivious to the fact that she’s in minority government.

The Conservative party are in in meltdown. We have a national crisis. Despite this gift, Corbyn and co being ridiculous. I’m not looking for much, right now I just want a sensible outcome to the Brexit mess. To hear a Labour MP today pointing out that the leader of the Labour party was prepared to meet Hamas, Hezbollah, the Assad Regime and Iran without preconditions, but not the British prime minister underlined just how preposterous Corbyn and his puppetmasters are.

The Corbynites, their shameful anti-semitism (not my friends, but a member of my family and you can’t choose them), their discredited-forty-years-ago economics, their class-war prejudice just cannot draw broad support. Not to mention the equivocation about the EU.

So Mumsnet, if you’ve made it with me this far, what is to be done? And if you have no idea either, please feel free to use this thread to vent.

  • Hijacked: This just isn’t the Labour Party. I was brought up by Labour activists (I feel so sorry for my mum, after all her hard work). This is just not the Labour Party of the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or 00s, the Labour party of Clement Attlee, Harold Wilson, Neil Kinnock, John Smith. I understand how people feel about Blair (I demonstrated against the invasion of Iraq in 2003) and Brown, but at least they were IN government and they did pursue progressive policies. They won three elections. The Labour party had never won two consecutive elections before.

The Corbyn lot used to be just a tiny faction, blamed for scuppering elections for the rest of the party time and again. God knows how Neil Kinnock must feel after battling Militant in the 80s (‘there can’t be a party within a party’). Momentum are an extremist movement which spotted an opportunity, stole a march on the mainstream Labour party and used C21st methods to stage a takeover. They just don’t represent the majority of Labour voters (or Labour MPs). My evidence for this is that Labour are neck and neck with the Tories in the polls, but Theresa May’s abysmal approval ratings are way above Jeremy Corbyn’s.

My second piece of evidence is from the 2017 general election. The reality is that Corbyn lost the last election, but it was hailed by his supporters as if it was a victory. Labour should have won this, but three weeks from the election date they were polling just 26/7%. Corby-supporting friends on Facebook were dismayed, they couldn’t understand it. The Labour vote only picked up when other progressive voters realised that a) at least Corbyn had pledged to get rid of tuition fees and b) they couldn’t face a TM coronation and hard Brexit. It wasn’t some moment of conversion to hard left politics.

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CallMeSirShotsFired · 20/01/2019 15:48

This is a thread specifically about JC though. Not about who might be shitter than him.

My local councillors all engage on FB. The Conservatives defend (some fairly rubbish) local policies they've implemented; the LibDems pop up and say "we don't agree and this is why and what we'd do"; the Independent man chimes in with his take. All good and worthwhile interaction and healthy debate.

Labour, without fail, will only post about how mean and bad and awful the Tories are, and 0 about what they'd do differently, let alone anything resembling an actual policy. See the difference?

WrongKindOfFace · 20/01/2019 15:37

They all do it. ‘Yes, but they’re shitter’.

CallMeSirShotsFired · 20/01/2019 13:30

^ More of this diversion about the opposition instead of addressing the primary concerns. Why do Labour always do this?

Crustaceans · 20/01/2019 13:25

Well May is also useless. 😆

WrongKindOfFace · 20/01/2019 11:23

I’m not sure Tory policy is any better - May’s tweet ‘It’s time for us to come together, put the national interest first - and deliver on the referendum.’ Shame she doesn’t actually know how she’s going to do this in just a handful of days.

noblegiraffe · 20/01/2019 10:23

Labour want a Brexit that will unite remainers and leavers waffle waffle jobs waffle industry blah customs union fudgeit strong relationship with single market twitter.com/uklabour/status/1085198280907284480?s=21

williteverend99 · 20/01/2019 09:59

What actually is Labour’s policy on Brexit? Does anyone have a clear idea?

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/01/2019 18:29

This reply has been deleted

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KOKOagainandagain · 18/01/2019 18:23

Thank you for clarifying.

Competence has to be judged in relation to something though.

In relation to brexit how are we meant to judge this given he has no power?

I'd be mightily pissed off to be judged in relation to something I had no control over.

I might even think that I was being made a scapegoat for those that did have power and control. Perhaps he has been meditating.

This is a catastrophe not of his making. What makes you think he bears responsibility? What do you think he could have done? Not just in the narrow sense of his 'job'.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/01/2019 18:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KOKOagainandagain · 18/01/2019 18:02

Smile - thank you for your help (I'm not sure I need it but still).

I'm pleased that Marge from Blackpool is happy - after all the personal is political. Maybe now we can address other issues she may have - NHS, paid employment, education, pensions, housing, care etc?

Do you mean robbing Peter to pay Paul? According to a labour theory of value, Peter has been robbing Paul to fund his extravagant lifestyle for decades/centuries.

SillySallySingsSongs · 18/01/2019 17:53

We'd be having this conversation whoever the leader of labour was

Not to this extent. He is useless. He goes MIA and we still don't know what Labours Brexit strategy is.

He wanted to hold more no confidence votes in the government over the next few weeks. However he has come unstuck because other parties have said if he does they won't back him.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 18/01/2019 17:45

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KOKOagainandagain · 18/01/2019 17:43

Mousse - I think the comrade is mistaken and you mean the Judaean's Peoples Front - they are bastards! Smile

KOKOagainandagain · 18/01/2019 17:37

Whether JC is 'fucking useless'(would be a hard appraisal meeting) or not is debatable.

But the use of the term 'job' - as if he is a self centred career politician that could just as easily be Tory or Lib Dem or UKIP according to which way the wind is blowing - really?

What if we widen what 'job' means to mean representation. Is he still useless?

And who does TM or JRM represent? Are they successful or useless?

Moussemoose · 18/01/2019 17:36

They won't gain power over the local park because they will be arguing about the fact the People's Front of Judaea are splitters.

lunicorn · 18/01/2019 17:21

Yes I always wonder what the extreme left is. My delightful racist relative is always talking about them.

Klobluchar · 18/01/2019 17:20

JC is being criticised because he is fucking useless at his job. Is he a good socialist or a bad one? I don’t care. He is a terrible leader of the opposition with a well-documented trail of dreadful past decisions.

KOKOagainandagain · 18/01/2019 17:18

Moussemoose - but what do you mean by 'the extreme left' and what would they 'gain power' over?

lunicorn · 18/01/2019 17:14

He's a bit stuck for now. If he comes out strongly on anything, he will risk losing half his core voters thus disaster for the Labour party.
I'm not one for commenting on individuals. He's not running the Labour Party alone. There will be a coordinated strategy and lying low might just be the least worst thing they can do for the moment.

Moussemoose · 18/01/2019 17:10

Is JC being criticised because he is not a good socialist or too socialist or not a good individualistic capitalist/invested advancer of the capitalist cause

Bang on KeepOnKeeping and that is why the extreme left will never gain power because they will be arguing amongst themselves.

KOKOagainandagain · 18/01/2019 17:06

A 'good' communist/socialist (MN does not make any distinction which begs the question of understanding - what do you mean by those terms or are they just a slur?) does not care a shiny shit about individualist issues (eg I have x job so fuck everyone else) because of a deeper, lifelong commitment to political ideals that strive to organise economic ways of living that benefit the majority and include and care for those that provide vital but economically discounted services (eg carers whether they be SAHMs or carers for the disabled or elderly) or are disadvantaged by profit making by confusing housing with investment (help to buy), introducing zero hours contracts, unpaid internships, in work benefits etc etc etc.

In short someone that looks at economic organisation as a tool for wellbeing of the majority rather than profit making for the minority. An atheist that says this way of doing things is not divinely ordained. A 'rebel' that says it doesn't have to be this way.

Revolutionary socialists have long been critical of parliamentary socialists that try to win rights from within a system that is set up against them. Perhaps if Labour are blamed for the failure of the Tories - before they were elected and during their term - this proves the pointlessness of Labour parliamentarianism within the framework of capitalism.

Is JC being criticised because he is not a good socialist or too socialist or not a good individualistic capitalist/invested advancer of the capitalist cause?

Crustaceans · 18/01/2019 15:04

We'd be having this conversation whoever the leader of labour was

I disagree. Corbyn is spectacularly useless. And definitely not leading an opposition.

I think virtually anyone else leading the Labour Party should have managed to at least win May’s snap election. The fact that Corbyn couldn’t is amazing.

Bluntness100 · 18/01/2019 14:33

But he is not leading, is he?

Fair point, ok I should have said leader of the opposition. That's the job he wants. That's the job he wishes to stay in.

And quite frankly I can't say I blame him, being prime minister now and in the next couple of years is an impossible task

Klobluchar · 18/01/2019 14:24

We'd be having this conversation whoever the leader of labour was

I think this is true. I wasn’t overly a fan of Ed Miliband because I thought the electorate would never go for him. But not for one minute did I think Ed Miliband was totally incompetent, racist, sexist, a liar and downright dangerous, not to mention completely incompetent in every aspect of his job. Corbyn is all of those things.

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