Boris Johnson pillar box comment

Ken Clarke - another wise politician on the burka
"It’s a most peculiar costume for people to adopt in the 21st century"

And another wise one Sadiq Khan:

“When I was younger you didn’t see people in hijabs and niqabs, not even in Pakistan when I visited my family. In London we got on. People dressed the same. What you see now are people born and raised here who are choosing to wear the jilbab or niqab. There is a question to be asked about what is going on in those homes. What’s insidious is if people are starting to think it is appropriate to treat women differently or that it has been forced on them. What worries me is children being forced to adopt a lifestyle. Should women be permitted to cover their faces in London? It’s not for me to tell women what to wear. But I do think that in public service we should be able to see each other’s faces. Eye contact matters. You should be able to see the face.”

It is certainly vital that feminists in the UK stand up for the rights of women not to be forced to wear clothing like this and hope through persuasion to ensure women realise it is a sign of their opression by men and invented Gods.

Like BJ however I would not ban it. that he is being criciticised when what he said was don't ban it just show how much people want to stir things up against him. As for women looking silly in it of course they do and we all know that but they can look like that if they want and we can say what we want just as people can say I look silly in my clothes if they want to - we don't give a hoot. We are made of very strong stuff.

My personal thoughts about the burqa are that the female Muslim community is diverse, some choose to wear signs of their faith of various kinds (have to say Burqa seems pretty rare have seen it more in tourist areas) some don’t wear any symbols There are a host of women in the UK Muslim community who are more than able to speak for themselves plus the issue of clothing is widely debated in the wider female Muslim community online/in books/articles/websites/telly/radio. It seems therefore inappropriate to impose on that community from outside. Should not these women, like all women, be given the space to decide on these issues themselves? If there are women who are being forced to wear burqas – and I haven’t read enough research on this to know if that’s even the case in the UK – and a representative lobby asks for assistance, fine.

In addition, if it’s true that there are UK Muslim women not allowed out in public without certain items of clothing, would not banning these items reinforce the very thing that, it’s claimed, others posting here want to prevent? Might not a ban effectively mean that such women are excluded from public life, not able to go out at all, how will that be of real use to these women?

Finally it's a dangerous time for Muslim women who wear any item that singles out their faith, many have been viciously attacked, only last year a pregnant Muslim woman in Bletchley was so savagely assaulted she lost her baby, the man who attacked her made sure to ridicule her outfit while kicking her stomach. Women who are in public wearing any outward symbol of Islam are brave, they deserve support they certainly don’t deserve to be ridiculed, Boris Johnson should be ashamed of his words and he should be disciplined to the full extent possible for reinforcing this kind of attitude, words can literally hurt in this area.

Bombardier totally agree with you, really dreading the thought of a Tory party that's led by Boris, particularly as Labour are not proving an effective opposition.

Hairbrush deleted.

We need to stop trivialising Johnson's actions and see him for the manipulative narcissist that he is. He's not clumsy or an oaf, these aren't even comments made off the cuff, he knew exactly what he was saying and why he was saying it.

The local elections earlier in the year saw a swing from UKIP to the Tories and that is the type of voter he wants to appeal to. Immigration and Islamophobia is their bread and butter. Expect it to get worse before it gets better.

Plus my grandma and my mother frequently told me to cover up, wear less tight trousers and so on...and they're atheists. Isn't it what grandmas do?

Hairbrush I lived in a predominantly Muslim area for years, I never had any of the problems you described, the people I met were really friendly, neighbours gave us food they prepared and so on. I even went into some cafes reserved for men a couple of times and was served tea/food, nobody was rude to me or made me feel uncomfortable only realised afterwards they weren't cafes but actually clubs for men. Also worked with young women for years many of whom were Muslim, some of whom wore Burkas, all interesting, intelligent, articulate women.

Timefortea while you're busy restricting Muslim women's choices of clothing, I hate the fashion for long nails, I think they look horrible, make it hard for women to do things and they're a breeding ground for fungal infections and bacteria so could you throw those in too please.

Johnson isn't an oaf. He is deliberately being predatory toward muslim women to make himself the poster boy of the political far right. Who are racists. He is one of them.

Unfortunately the shame of being called a 'racist' is swiftly being devalued as racists behaviour becomes normalised as in the US of A.

He is an oaf but at least he has started a debate of sorts.

A debate at the expense of the dignity of Muslim women, pretty poor debate, more like stirred up anti-Islamic thinking. The whole point of a liberal society is just that, that it is liberal, banning clothing is the very antithesis of that.

You don't know why particular women choose to wear or not wear a burka, many women say they find it liberating. And actually I can see why, you can nip to the shops, don't have to bother with hair, presentation and so on...Actually there are women who say that's when they wear it and who don't wear it otherwise. If you want to say that nobody should be forced to wear something if they don't want to fine, although even that's a problem as many organisations such as schools require uniforms/have dress codes that find oppressive, so good luck wording that law.

He is an oaf but at least he has started a debate of sorts. That outfit has no place in a liberal society. Banning it woukd be anti-liberal but it needs stopping.

At the same time, I accept that some women actively choose to cover their faces and I respect the right of women to wear what they want. I don't really think it's the state's place to dictate this.

Which is what Boris said.

This is because Boris can be politically astute when the need arises, he, Gove, Fox and Rees-Mogg are in the process of trying to install themselves as the next leaders of the Tory Part. If Boris hadn't qualified his statements he could be expelled or indefinitely suspended for going against the party's discrimination rules:that would be a bit of a problem; can't run a party you're not part of! His statement crossed the line just enough to bring condemnation from a number of high-ranking Muslim Tory figures and a censure from May, he may get disciplined, but he's betting on getting past that. However it was enough over the line to signal to anti-Islamic groups/voters that he shared their ‘concerns’. For ‘concerns’ read thinly and not-so-thinly veiled racism – no pun intended.

Boris is a showman. Like all performers in the entertainment business he tailors his act to appeal to his fans. Unfortunately he is also a politician.

At the same time, I accept that some women actively choose to cover their faces and I respect the right of women to wear what they want. I don't really think it's the state's place to dictate this.

Which is what Boris said.

Boris is no idiot. Nothing he says is accidental or casual. He has deliberately thrown this set of insults in to the media to keep himself in the public eye and gain votes from the far right. He is racist. He does think he can be the next prime minister here. It’s hard to know where you draw the line as a liberal society. It seems at the moment in the case of women being forced to wear the veil that they have to just find their own way out.

Perhaps.

MistressDeeCee Absolutely. Not to mention growing levels of plastic surgery even for very young women.

Sex sells. Women are encouraged to flaunt their bodies. To fight to hold back the years because you know, if you're older you don't look good.

Katie Price et al can make a fortune just by inflating their tits for the male gaze. Media strives to sexualise and influence young girls, getting them to obsess re how they look, and physical perfection. The thigh gap obsession. It is ALL to do with men who want titillation, and women socialised to buy into that both knowingly and subconsciously.

Alongside it all you have the hypocritical double standards message that women must be nice, pure, not to acceptable; all this whilst encouraging women to be and look accessible and fuckable.

There's no moral high ground to be gained at all re the western outlook on Burka/Niqab. As ever, it's blind to its hypocrisy in not even recognising that women and girls here are direct victims of blatant misogyny sexism and control too, and that is centred around womens' bodies.

I've seen plenty of medical advice over the years to not wear very high heels. No physiotherapist or doctor ever got villified for saying this

Think you got the wrong end of the analogy there!

Boris is liberal so he is just saying stuff to highlight how liberal he is.

What is your understanding of 'liberal' as a term? Boris has moved from the liberal wing of the Tory Party and is currently allied with the right-wing of the party, and has been for some time. He, together with Rees-Mogg and Gove, has just been in meetings with Steve Bannon. Bannon the the anti-immigration, former Trump strategist, formerly executive for Breitbart the US far-right news site and currently in talks with far-right groups throughout Europe. Boris is looking to pick up voters from the right in the UK and not just the right, the far right. Boris as usual is out for Boris.

I've seen plenty of medical advice over the years to not wear very high heels. No physiotherapist or doctor ever got villified for saying this.

Goldenwonderwall totally agree with you. Interested that two threads on MN at the moment about this issue and both lead with Boris, but both have primarily attracted posters focused on women not being allowed to wear burqas. It is assumed that somehow Muslim women are not capable of making informed choices about clothing. Yet many more women in the UK wear cripplingly high heels: they restrict movement, if worn too often can cause foot deformities, are dangerous trip hazards, and affect the muscle and tendons of the lower leg. They are also associated with misogyny, the 'fuck-me' heel, the idea that they force women to walk in a way that makes their buttocks protrude which has been linked to being suggestive of rear entry sex and so on...I have friends who work in the city who are not required to wear them but do so because it is expected of them in less overt ways. Yet no-one is calling for a blanket high heel ban or suggesting that that women who wear them are not capable of making choices about what they wear. Seems it's only Muslim women others feel free to dictate to.