Boris Johnson pillar box comment

This chap is talking some sense

"Imam Taj Hargey, from the Oxford Islamic Congregation said the Tory MP has nothing to apologise for and 'did not go far enough' in his remarks.

He branded the burqa a 'hideous tribal ninja-like garment' and said its has 'no Koranic legitimacy'. "

Was that genuine?

Insensitive the remark may well have been but worse than this "girls used and abused by Asian gangs in Rotherham and elsewhere need to shut their mouths for the good of diversity" tweeted by Naz Shah. Hardly a murmur the silence was deafening

The issue is millions of women are compelled to wear the burqa or have been brainwashed / indoctrinated into a culture in which women must submit to the will of males. The burqa symbolises misogyny . There will always be women that choose to believe it is their choice, it is a similar type of thinking that sex work is a free choice as well . Usually those from privileged backgrounds !

Good old Boris; he 'lets' his wife and sister go out to work. Words fail me!!

Clothing came up. Crap typing.

Goodness you lot need to get on over to the feminist chat board! The whole place is full of nothing but threads about the trans ideology and the medical problems thereof, of which breast binding is one symptom. The male gaze which causes women to want to do these things is on there, and way before the current trans obsession clothing cane up regularly. Yes people do still talk about and protest these things! Unfortunately others get fed up with hearing us go on about it so we get consigned to specially limited places (as you’d know if you’d seen the trans threads or anything else feminist on AIBU)

I've heard lots of Muslims make fun of women in burkas.

I find it astounding that Boris can lead us to Brexit based on a load of lies and bluster...but these remarks are the ones he is being ‘investigated’ for

How is having a working wife and sister "doing his bit for feminism"?

I keep forgetting that in Xenia's world a working mother is an oddity. It was the only normal I knew when growing up (1970s).

BJ actually does do his bit for feminism. His wife is a working barrister rather than a stay at home wife like so many politicians have. His sister is a working mother too.

Punch cartoons in the 1800s and early 1900s were full of cartoons lampooning female (and indeed male) dress. We are a ntaion which loves taking the micky out of each other as I am sure muslims do about each other do - we all like to laugh at each other and those who are strong can bear this because they know they are right and true or couldn't care less.

Also women entering parliament was a bit later 1918 after WWI. Restrictive victorian clothes girls were forced to wear were going out by then although we still had a lot to fight over to get skirts shorter and trousers possible never mind getting rid of the girdle in the 1950s.

Xenia unless you're independently wealthy with a lot of foreign investments you will suffer too, we all will.

badteacher, we feminists looby all the time nad have for decades against those kinds of things. Our ancestors fought agin and again in Victorian times against clothes which stopped women able to run and play and jump and run. There is massive lobbying against women's clothes which constrict then and pushing little girls into frilly dresses which stops them climbing trees like their brothers and mumsnet often covers those issues.

"Oh the sheer hypocrisy of it . I think bikinis ,6 inch heels , low cut tops and mini skirts are sexist , uncomfortable , and not part of any religious requirement either but can't see anyone 'lobbying ' against them."

Bikinis - not sure of teh problem with those although I prefer full nudity myself when I get the chance to be on a nudist beach. High heels fine. Low cut - well I am wearing a fairly low cut top today because it is a warm day - that is not to attract me or in any kind of sexual way that I am wearing it.

(On the economy point above I am a Remainer and it will mostly be those who voted brexit who are likely to suffer it but that's their problem. The turkeys voted for Christmas)

And for those of you who think Boris is so great, and so liberal. At least have the decency to do some reading about him and his move to the right as well as his politics - although he is basically a rank opportunist. If you are going to support someone like this at least take the time to find out who or what you are supporting. Since he is also part of a group with Rees-Mogg (anti-abortion, supports hard Brexit but has already moved his own business out), and Liam Fox. This group and their supporters are advising their business associates to get out of sterling investments because anything linked to it will soon tank. A lot of people made money out of the pro-Brexit vote through hedge funds and foreign investment. So look that stuff up too. If you are going to be part of the support for something that will tank the economy, and stir up far -right hate groups at least OWN it!

badteacher agree and what about the growing fashion for breast binders? Don't see many sustained protests about these, damage young girl's bodies and relate to the perpetuation of stereotypes about gender that make them feel uncomfortable about themselves as women. Conversely the growth of plastic surgery in young people.

People fixate often on the Burka as criticising it is an acceptable form of 'coded racism' people either can't admit or recognise their bias or do admit it but know they can't come out and say I have a problem with Islam, instead they ridicule Muslim women and normalising this makes these women more vulnerable to actual attacks.

As for Boris Johnson he is well aware of 'coded racism' it's a new tactic in right politics, it's one favoured by Bannon former advisor to Trump and as far right as they come, just the respectable sort with a suit and a pricey education. Boris has been meeting with Bannon and so would be well aware of the tactic, it's been widely adopted in Trump's speeches.

Ridiculing women in any way is appalling, and BJ knew exactly what he was doing he was playing to the UKIP supporters. The Conservatives saw a swing to UKIP in council elections and there is a lobby that is anti-Islam in the party's grassroots. He is slowly building support for the Conservative right. Depressed how many posters have such strong opinions about how great Boris is and how 'liberal' he is and clearly have never read and are not following the politics of this. If this was the AIBU section it would be less sad but this is the politics section.

If you don't know what coded racism is then this might help:

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/31/16226488/trump-identity-politics-racism

Those of you who think he made a fair point, how do you feel about the fact that he made the point by taking the mick?

@stillamum22 I think I was unclear; wearing a burqa is a socio-political decision masquerading under the guise of religious virtue. In the UK it is mostly not worn because of race or cultural reasons. It's presence has increased hugely in recent years for reasons that @campion and others have mentioned.

Criticising the burqa is not racism but part of a valid discussion of deeper social issues-criticising the wearer could potentially be racism.

Good question Ihaventgot. I think my very first reaction is because it’s such an obvious public statement. Then a statement about hiding one’s face, and only secondarily the linkup to sex. Next it becomes a symbol of women’s slavery to looks and clothes - men don’t get quite the same level of continual judgement and shaming. Then it widens to include women’s oppression in other cultures. Knowing that the face coverings are a new requirement from fundamentalist religion I also wonder about the power of religion to impose social conformity, and the growing influence of religion in secular life. Lots of things.

I'm normally very diplomatic and tolerant of people's life chooses but I find the burka abhorrent. The problem with Johnson is that he has used cheap, childish rhetoric instead of directly addressing the misogyny behind the burka.
As I get older, I'm actually losing tolerance for the headscarf too. I used to accept people's personal choices but I'm just getting sick of women having to adapt their behaviour because men want to control them. Islam actually expects both sexes to dress modestly and women don't actually have to cover their hair but men and complicit women seized the opportunity to control and limit women.
Disclaimer- my husband is Muslim so I'm not racist. He shares my views. In fact lots of Muslims feel like that about the burka.

wrong if you see the burka as having negative connotations is it about the suppression of women’s rights? Or is it antagonism towards a different culture? Or is it fear of not being able to identify the wearer?

It is a fair comparison because it is all about the meaning clothes send out. Non language meaning is just as if not stronger than others. As for the accusations of small minded ness, they’re remarkably common when faced with fair arguments that one has no answer to.

I am not quite sure why, but I don't mind the pillarbox comment. I don't expect any better of BJ. Sadness is that so many people still support BJ and see him as having leadership potential.

I don’t wear them, and I have seen protests against requirements for heels and make up in certain jobs (eg airline hostesses). More and more of us are asserting our right not to have to wear make up in regular jobs. There are currently moves against females being used as scantily-clad decorations in motor sports. So your statement is not entirely true.