Scotland's new income tax!

Work doesn't automatically solve any problems either these days, even financial problems. Government needs to take responsibility in addressing issues such as cost of housing, childcare, inflation etc. That would help many. I do agree that they need to start investing in healthcare (inc mental health), education etc to enable people to 'help themselves'. It seems that Scotland is at least trying to do something about some of these issues, which is more than can be said about England.

When people feel abandoned, let down and worthless, life doesn't present that many options

True. But as in your post Dinosaur it is often their families/upbringing/ parenting which is letting them down. To think that the gov giving handouts is the answer is not solving things long term.
Supporting people in education and into finding work is a better way to spend taxes. People need to have pride and autonomy. Money should go to supporting people to get off drugs, to find a way of supporting themselves.
I do voluntary work with less fortunate people, some have very sad lives and I feel that it is not until they find the determination to change their lives that things improve for them. They need support to change (which isn't available as much as it should be) not gov money to stay as they are.

When people feel abandoned, let down and worthless, life doesn't present that many options.

I said almost exactly this on another thread recently too, and I stand by it. There are whole estates being written off by the system and that’s an enormous part of, if not the biggest cause of, a lot of problems.

@howabout I think that's why it should be based (if it's done at all) on tax codes. My FiL and Father for example who both still pay a higher rate of tax despite being for all intents and purposes retired do not need the protection of being a "pensioner" that someone on the state pension and/or struggling does.

Dinosaur my concern errs the other way. Charging those who can "afford" it very often morphs into charging almost everyone regardless with the situation as is in England / used to be in Scotland. Melony's wealthy pensioner friends get free prescriptions and struggling single parents have to pay - my DM was one such SP and has been on heart medication since she was in her early 30s so I am speaking from experience.

@howabout I suppose I'm just uncomfortable with getting things for free that we could easily afford to pay for when that's not true across the board and the NHS is struggling.

@Melony6 I worked with a lot of vulnerable families and life choices... we saw the same pattern so many times. Children taken into care because of dysfunctional family life, seeing things that no child should have to experience. No one wanted to adopt them, passed from pillar to post, excluded from school. Got into drugs, crime, prostitution. Went to jail, rinse and repeat.

When people feel abandoned, let down and worthless, life doesn't present that many options. Some of them were so terrified of living on their own and tackling their demons they'd re-offend purely for the "safety" and routine of prison.

Melony does perhaps illustrate a problem with our society though. I believe her when she says that she doesn't know anyone from the other side of the spectrum because outside of work neither do I. I'm pretty sure most of my friends and certainly some of my family and definitely that of DH's share her views because they haven't seen it or talked to people living it and if we want a fairer country then that needs to change.

just found this - we're both going to be paying a lot more tax next year. Did you see the rumour council tax will rise by 3% in Edinburgh too?

I'm glad about the tax rises, everyone in the UK needs to pay more tax for the NHS and education to be sustainable but especially because the SNP have for a long time posed as left wing whilst not being honest about the fiscal cost of breaking up the union or using their existing tax raising powers.

Bring it on SNP, whack up taxes and watch your nationalist support melt before your eyes like the castle of air it is...

So much bollocks on one thread.

The low life expectancy is partly life choices

And they shouldn’t have free prescriptions

Ok, I'm out.

The elderly' in my aquaintance are early retirees on very nice pensions thanks booking their New Year ski trips

Then your experience is extremely limited. Ffs have you not ever met anyone struggling financially or in a “heat or eat” conundrum? There are people, elderly and otherwise in utterly horrendous poverty forced there by the Tories all around us.

You don't sound like someone I would like to know, Melony.

And they shouldn’t have free prescriptions because the NHS is on its uppers.

The low life expectancy is partly life choices - hence I feel a Nanny state is not the way to go.

yy

I like the fact that Holyrood has a collection of social workers, teachers, pharmacists, farmers etc rather than a plethora of PPE graduates with no life experience that we have at Westminster.

The elderly' in my aquaintance are early retirees on very nice pensions thanks booking their New Year ski trips

In which case they have probably paid more tax throughout their life's, and are continuing to pay tax on their pension. Why on earth shouldn't they have free prescriptions?

As an aside, life expectancy for a man is 71 in Glasgow.

It seems to me that your objections to free at point of use services is purely ideological, not based on any real detriment.

Melony that about the elderly is making me wonder if you are winding us up or just very sheltered. I work with over 65s in Scotland in their own homes and they are not as you describe.

Ah yes, there’s really no gap between retired people fit enough to go skiing and the over 90s is there? There must be places in Scotland where you would really struggle to find a man in his 90s at all, most are dead by then.

'The elderly' in my aquaintance are early retirees on very nice pensions thanks booking their New Year ski trips. If you mean the over 90s then say that. But the Scottish Gov seem to want a Nanny state.

But if they paid then they would be more likely to look into when/if they should be taking it/reordering it

I don't think.that was much of a factor. As a pp said most prescriptions are for the elderly who may have several medications on the go,.combine that with an overstretched NHS where a GP simply doesn't have time to go through the medications with the patient / review all the medications

There are issues with the NHS, but they are not caused in main by patients

it is generally due to the patient not understanding how and when they should be taking and reordering their prescription
But if they paid then they would be more likely to look into when/if they should be taking it/reordering it.

think that paying for a prescription ie paying a set amount, not paying the value of your medication which could be a huge amount, makes people feel more appreciation for what they get

If a prescription cost is high enough to make people think like that, it is high enough to put people off getting their prescriptions in the first place which will cost the NHS more in the long run.

Additionally many studies have been done looking at medicine wastage and where the wastage comes from and they have shown that where the patient directly wastes the medicine (which is by no means all or even most of the wastage) it is generally due to the patient not understanding how and when they should be taking and reordering their prescription.

I think that paying for a prescription ie paying a set amount, not paying the value of your medication which could be a huge amount, makes people feel more appreciation for what they get and increases the ikelihood of you thinking about what you are takng and why....... and that you will actually take it and not leave it in the chemist's bag in your medicine cabinet.

Dinosaur about 90% of prescriptions are for pensioners or those otherwise exempt from payment. Charging would recover very little of the 1.1bn total. Proportionate progressive taxation for higher earners is much more efficient at collecting what they can afford than charging higher earners for illness.

I also struggle to understand why ill high earners should pay a larger proportion to the NHS than healthy ones?

I believe that there has to be way of making those on the higher tax brackets pay for prescriptions, administering it and still turning a "profit"

But why? What's the point?