Please can someone explain? Will we pay if we leave EU without a deal?

@Moussemoose and @Rufustherenegadereindeer1

Sorry about the Monty Python stuff. You're right that it's not necessary, but FFS does it ever feel appropriate.

It's frustrating when you spend time cogently responding and you get this stuff back:

1. Miscomprehension of her own post.
2. A belief we enter into trade deals separately with all EU 27 vs EU
3. The weird assertion that being fiscally conservative has led to Greece's problems and widespread problems in the EU27
4. No supporting argumentation or very weak when provided. Non sequiturs mainly
5. No point by point response but empty insults about twaddle

There is a fact void in these posts that is painful.

I would love to engage in an intelligent and knowledgeable exchange about these issues at some point - in large part to battle test my own understanding.

Don't disagree with you mousse

I think accusing posters of talking "twaddle" while being incapable of putting forward a coherent argument is rude.

Making assertions and being totally incapable of backing them up is worse than being rude it is dishonest.

Name calling is not the only way of being rude. Anyway, it makes me laugh.

Because Misti, Olivia is talking utter twaddle and hasnt a clue. Does that help.

Not unless you are prepared to refute to her points in detail. Otherwise it makes you look like you are just throwing insults because you don't have a response. Her points were well made and detailed. You don't get to call that "utter twaddle" without making any attempt to tell us why you think that.

You are being really rude now olivia

I honestly dont think there is a need for that at all

EU: We agreed to adopt all these children & now you won't pay for them?
UK: I never wanted kids with you anyway. Your problem. You pay for 'em.
EU: I never would have married you if I'd known you were such a liar.

n= 0; repeat while n == 0 {
UK: Come on, be a good sport. I know you still want access to my garden & I want access to your sports club membership. Can't we work out a deal?
EU: Do you think I trust a word you say after the way you shafted me?!
UK: You need me more than I need you.
EU: The Fuck I do.
UK: You should think more creatively about a possible deal with me.
EU: Creative means I should trust you again? Hell will freeze over first.
UK: Come on...
EU: Only if you pay me back shed loads of money, WITH Interest!
UK: I don't need you anyway!
EU: Make sure to close the door on your way out.
}

That's what happens if we leave EU with "No deal."

Well, It seems Monty Python is a propos. FFS, I thought we had an intelligent one this time.

So on the MTO point, Caroline, our animal food trough wiper, has not explained the relevance to Brexit or even why other countries within the EU have not suffered under them. Morever, there MIGHT, just MIGHT be something about Greece that makes this example completely irrelevant - like they lied to Eurostat to hide their fiscal profligacy, like the Greeks are incapable of collecting taxes.

And on the WTO point ... I now question whether our animal food trough wiper speaks English as a first language. WTO rules are MINIMUM terms under which international trade gets conducted - ie any agreements signed are there to IMPROVE on WTO terms. I didn't write that there were WTO minimum rules.

It's like the accusation that the agreements to be roll over - from WIPER's own post - related to EU trade agreements. Is English not your first language, O, Animal food trough wiper?

So an economic target is the reason people earn below the poverty threshold.

I'm not an economist but that doesn't make sense.

Because Misti, Olivia is talking utter twaddle and hasnt a clue. Does that help.

No it doesnt at all

Thats pretty much what i got from M4

'We are right and that person is wrong and im not going to tell you how they are wrong because its 'blatantly' obvious'

Ive , probably stupidly and naively, believed that there are vaild arguments for and against brexit. And to be fair in the early days of these threads there were thoughtful posts both for and against

Not anymore

Wouldn't you have thought that at the time the people who got us into this dictatorship organisation might have thought about the consequences if we left. I think we should leave without a deal. Because I wouldn't trust those weasels one inch to honour anything. Thank God we're going out.

Mousemoose, keeping it short, because MTOs are the bulding block of EU fiscal policy.

They are the starting points as to why 15% of the Greek population, 1.6million people, earned below the extreme poverty threshold in 2015.
In 2009, height of the financial crisis, it was a mere 2.2%.

Thats EU fiscal policy. Thats whose paying.

Carolinesbeanies

You brought up MTOs. Still waiting for you to explain their relevance.

Soon I'll start to think you don't know what you are talking about and just brought them up as a distraction.

"For once why don't you show us."

Because they dont exist. Olivia?

@Moussemoose

We are wasting our time. Caroline does not have the intellect or knowledge to maintain this discussion so I'm bringing out Monty Python. It's the only thing we are left with. At least it's funny.

Caroline: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Now go away before I taunt you a second time.

Carolinesbeanies

More utter twaddle Olivia. Show me WTO "minimum terms

For once why don't you show us.

Carolinesbeanies

Answer the questions still outstanding before you start slinging insults.

MTOs? The relevance thereof?

More utter twaddle Olivia. Show me WTO "minimum terms".

@Carolinesbeanies

You are clearly a simple being. You have misunderstood your own post which I reread to make sure I wasn't at fault. My response is on point.

The only time WTO need to engage, is if trading terms, for want of better words 'restrictions increase'. (Ill try and use really simple words. )

Huh? Please explain. I don't understand this meaningless drivel.

WTO rules are 'fall-backs'. MINIMUM terms that countries can trade with one another. Anything else - FTA, DCFTA, other trade agreements remove NTBs otherwise imposed by WTO rules.

Where trading terms remain the same, or restrictions reduce, WTO doesnt even apply. You misunderstand the WTO. You misunderstand WTOs existing approval of EU trade.

No idea what you are saying. Please explain.

The only time WTO need to engage, is if trading terms, for want of better words 'restrictions increase'.
(Ill try and use really simple words. )

Where trading terms remain the same, or restrictions reduce, WTO doesnt even apply. You misunderstand the WTO. You misunderstand WTOs existing approval of EU trade.

You misunderstand a lot.

@Carolinesbeanies

Here we go again ...

You can't counterargue can you? Just incapable.

@Carolinesbeanies

I don't give a rat's ass who Mark Price is. I've already assumed he got whatever assurances we want.

Because Misti, Olivia is talking utter twaddle and hasnt a clue. Does that help.

@Carolinesbeanies

HUH?: all EU states to roll over their existing trading terms in the event of no-deal

This makes ZERO sense. EU states do not have separate trading arrangements. Perhaps you are referring to David Davis' and Liam Fox's original belief that they needed to negotiate trade deals with each EU 27 separately ???

I'm gonna start throwing in expletives if you don't start engaging the brain, @Carolinesbeanies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MarkPrice,,BaronPrice

Draining board? Why the silly insulting language? Why not just respond politely to points made?