Labour’s u-turn on supporting the Brexit Referendum result.

Do you really think the EU is going to be able to stand there and like a parent tell 27 countries, don't sell the goods you made to the UK because they bought something from someone else.

You seem to think this 'big bad EU bogeyman' is an entity separate from its members, some horrible ogre hulking over the states of Europe like a power hungry beast issuing rules and interfering in everyone's business.

It is not. The EU is a bloc of willing member states that operates on the basis of consensual gloop, as Thea calls it.

Trade is highly regulated, no matter who the trading partners are.

Please read the Bloomberg article I posted so you will be disabused of the idea you have that the WTO is like the bottom of some rainbow.

Nit picking again I see....
I also said I can't look into my crystal ball to see what items will increase and which will decrease...

I also remember when a fridge took a months wages, and now it takes a weeks to buy one.

Yet a few posts back you told us that living costs have always gone up. Which is it?

For godsake Maths, face up to the future.
Do you really think the EU is going to be able to stand there and like a parent tell 27 countries, don't sell the goods you made to the UK because they bought something from someone else.
Can you see France being happy that their Champagne isn't being drunk, as we buy the most and sits in their warehouses, so they can stroke it...
We can trade with anyone on the WTO agreement, that is what it is there for. We are already members.

I also remember when a fridge took a months wages, and now it takes a weeks to buy one.
All things change, and yes I don't think life will be easy, but I do think somehow we will get through to the other side, and once there and have more knowledge instead of 2 sides blaming the other, we can move forward and sort things. Well we are going to have to aren't we.

I think you are being carried away by words. Divorce bill is shorthand. It is not meant as a term with any specific meaning.

This is a contract issue. The UK agreed to pay a certain amount to the EU until 2020.

You can't still trade on WTO terms, not with the US, China, Japan, New Zealand or Brazil, and others who do not have trade agreements with the EU.

Post Brexit, the UK will be faced with a stark choice - US vs European countries as trade partners. The EU will not countenance dumping, selling on of items imported from other countries, unfair advantages that are the result of government subsidies, or low corporate taxes that undercut EU tax rates, and the UK faces issues with WTO members if it applies tariffs cut and pasted from the current EU schedule that restrict access to the UK market.

Here is a brief glimpse of the minefield that lies on the sunlit uplands:
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-26/theresa-may-faces-wto-trade-tangle-as-brexit-lift-off-nears-q-a

Living cost have always gone up, a loaf of bread cost pennies once...
Hmmm
relative to earnings, food is cheaper now than it has ever been.

I have my account books showing my shopping bills in the late 1980's
a baguette cost around 60p
when a decent graduate salary was £10,000 a year
my three bedroom house in the SE cost me £30,000
and mortgages were 15%

wine was £5 a bottle in 1986
is £5 a bottle now
but houses and wages have moved on somewhat

UK food is incredibly cheap
if the Brexit team are stupid enough to revert to WTO rules it will rise by a lot

Oh you mean we can ignore the bit of paper we gave the EU...
That 17 Million asked to be sent...

Living cost have always gone up, a loaf of bread cost pennies once...

If you could have stated all this BEFORE the Referendum maybe the vote would have been different
I did, repeatedly
so did the Economist, the FT, the US press, the EU press
so did most sensible scientists, economists and business people

Unfortunately people believed that Gove knew better than experts
and that the £350m was not a total lie

and many of them voted for reasons that were NOT written on the ballot paper

hence why its so good that the vote was advisory and can be ignored once parliament grow a pair

Living costs are already going up. Some Brexiteers argue that the £ was overvalued which implies that they don't have a problem with increased costs.

So sorry my Crystall Ball won't work at the moment and my Time Machine is charging...

If you could have stated all this BEFORE the Referendum maybe the vote would have been different, but you are to blame just as much as I am for what happened.
Had you won it would be you telling me that it was wishful thinking, why do you need to see this fail so badly, what are you frighten of?

No one wants Living costs to go up, your being childish on purpose...

Pity you can't see there is no way back, so we have to accept what could or may happen.
You re right I cannot see or accept that bit

Food may go up, it also could come down, but there will be pluses and gains in all things, however my crystal ball isn't working right now, so i can't say which particular items.....
Do list the gains please

So Morrisons have a contract for 40,000 trays of tomatoes to be delivered from Spain, they pay on delivery, and they don't arrive, so the Spanish Farmers don't get paid, as the items never arrives, or never not eatable when they arrived. do you not think this will an EU problem as well as a UK one.

I love how anything said, is never used as a whole, but cherry picked to provide a place to poke...

Was there a further meaning later on in your post that didn't mean you are cool with the likelihood of living costs going up?

I love how anything said, is never used as a whole, but cherry picked to provide a place to poke...
Pity you can't see there is no way back, so we have to accept what could or may happen.
Food may go up, it also could come down, but there will be pluses and gains in all things, however my crystal ball isn't working right now, so i can't say which particular items.....

We can still buy if we trade on WTO terms
yes but HOW : the logistics of customs clearance to the EU are just not there
the Dover bottleneck cannot cope with the issues
and everybody who airily says WTO has not looked at the physicality of it
C88s and T2 and demurrage coming back to the ports and being brought into the tunnel for the first time will cause utter and complete chaos for months and months

and kiss goodbye to cheap phone charges and holiday flights

peregrina
Yes, it was subsumed some years back - friends work in radiation labs at universities
again a case of the brexiteers not doing ANY homework before telling lies for the vote

so we won't starve, it may cost more

We're awfully blithe about other people affording food, because sovereignty is so nutritious and tasty.

(Ireland has a written constitution, established after a plebiscite in 1937, that states that the authority of the government comes from the people (as opposed to a monarch). The constitution allows for a referendum if any of the clauses of the constitution are to be amended or removed, or if any new clauses are to be added. There have been a number of occasions in past decades when this instrument has been used, but basically Ireland is a parliamentary democracy.)

How can you do a Divorce Bill, when you don't know what your getting a Divorce from?

Basic mathematics here..
We can still buy if we trade on WTO terms, so we won't starve, it may cost more, but if the EU offer nothing , then we have lost nothing, and it's not all one sided, and you can't pretend it is..

Um no, its part of the EU and under the ECJ

According to DS who works at one of their labs, it was a separate treaty - which might have got absorbed into the ECJ but I am pretty sure wasn't part of the EU. I asked him the day after the Referendum vote whether it would affect them and the word was No, because it was established under a different Treaty. Come A50 and leaving Euratom being mentioned specifically in the additional paper work, it came as a complete bolt from the blue, and the senior management were incandescent about not being informed. Nor had any of the Tory MPs representing the constituencies involved.

I AM an accountant
I also used to work in import export

the "divorce bill" is chicken feed compared with the logistics of exiting the free market
focus on how you will buy your veg rather than who owns 15% of a building in Brussels

No the Company analogy is true.
The Accountants are working through the figures to come up with an amount we are willing to pay.
There will be words. there will be numbers...
There will be Liabilities as in the PDF published on here.
It states we will get back our share held by the bank.
There are also many Assets help by the EU.
Buildings and have we not been given bills to repair these, so someone must own them, and if they are owned who do you think paid into the pot to buy the land to build them on and to pay for the materials, and this is what an asset is, some thing you own that has value.
So we are back into the Accounts thing again...

I did not say overseas aid, I said regional aid

The EU has pumped far more money into WAles, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Cornwall than the UK government has directly

Green issues : watch this video to see where the UK is headed after Brexit
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

THe company analogy is entirely erroneous