If you voted Tory how do you feel about 'austerity is over'?

And with it, the associated pension liability.

DoctorDonnaNoble

Re your "austerity isn't necessary and National Budgets are not the same as household ones"

Governments running annual Budget Deficits, I agree, is not quite the same as household budgets, as unfortunately governments cannot be legally accountable for their national over spending screw ups, which allows them to write cheque bribes to get elected, with our own money – and then walk away afterwards with their pensions intact, unlike households.

In 1997 the Conservatives handed over to Labour £400 billion of National Debt, and previous budgets that would balance the UKs tax receipts/spending books by around 2001, as it did,

But by 2010 Labour borrowing billions more well before the crash to supplement their banking/credit boom tax receipts, handed back £1 trillion of National Debt, the public sector annual budgets stuffed with PFI bad debts- while projecting a £167 billion plus annual overspend from 2010 – so where DID all the money go?

No competent household I know would get into that state, and disingenuously blame ‘Tory austerity’ for trying to sort that lot out.

But its not just the £1.9 trillion of National Debt we should be worried about, increasing annually by the annual budget overspend few want cut, and currently £46 billion of annual interest.

UK Pensions are mainly UNFUNDED, which means the State/taxpayer pays them out of annual budgets on demand, and with the ‘baby boomers’ now retiring, this will be an increased drain on annual government spending.

So what are the UK unfunded pension Liabilities?

The last time I saw the UK State Pension liability, it was £3.8 trillion.

The last time I saw the UK government workers Pension Liability it was £1.5 trillion.

So with the National Debt, that is currently £7.2 trillion of UK liabilities that has to be paid back by someone from now on.

(Think about that when Corbyn/McDonnell the investment experts, say they want to INCREASE all those liabilities, by paying for, and annually supporting, the blowing of an undetailed £250 billion of new borrowing, establishing a UK Government Investment Bank, Nationalise electricity, rail, gas and mail, and create 1 million more ‘decent’ paying government jobs etc.)

Austerity isn't necessary. National budgets are not the same as household budgets. We will not agree. Have you got any concept of the issues the DUP have caused in NI? They should be facing criminal charges. It is not just Sinn Fein who are not happy with them.

Out2pasture

Re your “My experience is that no matter which party is in power there is no change. After all the amount of money they have to play with is always the same. They might spread the cash in slightly different ways but there is never enough to make a difference. Smoke and mirrors.”

Unfortunately the money is not the same re how much the UK government spends on one side of the balance sheet, and on the other side what it brings in via taxes from the private sector (businesses) or borrows to make up the difference.

Which is why in 2010 we had this huge government budget deficit in the first place, requiring corrective action.

What socialist governments forget is that if not to increase government debt, businesses need to be encouraged to grow and hire, and there is no god given right for companies/jobs to exist to create SUSTAINABLE growth as opposed to UNSUSTAINABLE government cheque book growth

As sooner than later when they grow the State (spending) significantly higher than tax revenues coming in, markets and investors seeing a lemon of a country economic model, price in the ‘extra risk’, initially raising interest rates paid by governments/tax payers.

In Greece they had a much larger State and were not business friendly, so as businesses did not cover the cost of the State, they ended paying up to 16% interest rates on their government bonds, before interest from investors dried up altogether, and they needed a financial bail out with the IMF and EU telling them to slash public spending significantly.

Under Corbyn and McDonnell who detest businesses and ‘profits’, they are basing their whole cunning economic plan to not only fund CURRENT annual UK spending, but also massively increase the size of the UK State AGAIN – on imposing the highest taxes on UK companies since the 1970’s – clearly with it not occurring to them, that businesses under Marxist policies will contract and shed jobs, not invest and hire more, cutting the taxes funding Corbyn and McDonnell’s spending promises.

Similar to the McDonnell targeted 5% of UK ‘rich’ on over £80k, already paying far more taxes under this government than under Labour – apparently unlike in France when they tried more penal taxes – they will be paying even more taxes under Labour, not contracting or leaving the country, before France realised their mistake to late, and reduced them again.

So not unlike New Labour who raised taxes from everyone in their first 7-years, we are all meant to believe that under Corbyn, taxes won’t rise for everyone to make up the costs of annual tuition fee and wipe out all debt promises, nationalisation of the post, electricity, rail and gas industries – and god knows what else is in that manifesto.

Bright international government bond investors currently funding the UK’s current near £1.9trillion of national debt, currently expecting both a UK balanced economy and a plan to wipe out the UK budget deficit to limit their investment ‘risk’ – and so accept 1.25% UK interest on 10-year bonds – will be happy to fund this new Corbyn and McDonnel La La Land ‘tax high, spend badly’ experiment as current interest rates. Not.

This year the UK will pay £48 billion of interest (from what could be spent on services) to bond investors on the current national debt, think how much that could cost us later as markets price in turbo charged additional Labour borrowing, and an economic model based on penal taxes.

DoctorDonnaNoble

Firstly, how on earth can the DUP be ‘stalling’ on the power sharing agreement, when it was Sinn Fein walking out as they didn’t like the DUP leader, they still have?

As to Labour myths, facts, and the state of the public finances and services, lets not forget that is was Labour’s wasteful spending on unreformed services, and huge borrowings on rubbish terms (on contracts for up to 50-years) via the Private Finance Initiative – that has saddled the annual budgets of schools, the NHS and other services, with huge repayments affecting services NOW, to look good back then.

Under Labour these PFI private sector contracts on the ‘never, never’ Labour disingenuously always accuse the Tories are plotting, reached £222billion.

Now Labour’s Corbyn and McDonnell say trust Labour again (with no detail) to both “transform capitalism” and borrow in the name of every citizen taxpayer, another £250 billion over a parliament, using their non existent ministerial or commercial experience, to spend on public sector ‘investment’ stuff – to have ‘now’ whatever, their new old Labour warped view of ‘investment’ is, for future generations to suffer the real austerity for, ‘later’.

Indeed, ButtofFun, I was going for irony.

It's not a mindless smear. The DUP have far more recently met with active terrorists who kill fathers in front of their sons. They are financially corrupt and responsible for the stalled power sharing at Stormont.
Slashed budgets is not a Labour Myth. It's reality. That's why our public sector is at breaking point.

Anyone would think that the DUP had only just attended the Westminster parliament, rather than being the 10 seats either a Conservative or Labour coalition (it whatever form) would need for a working parliamentary majority.

Alternatively could it be both Corbyn and McDonnell’s pro IRA support, when the terrorists group were active and bombing London, attending at least 72 IRA meetings - including honouring the IRA dead (but not the DUPs) has come back to haunt them?

That might explain this mindless DUP smear campaign, and/or if the Labour leadership is STILL sympathetic (for old times sake) to Sinn Fein, the IRA’s political wing.

I hope you're joking, MotherMucca, after the DUP deal.

YESSS 👊🏼👊🏼

A vote for Conservative is a vote against TERRORISM.

BoysofMelody

Under this government, forget mantras, the rich are paying more tax, the poorest less than under Labour - but lets look at cuts/austerity.

The ‘austerity’ view, if a country is trying to live within its means, is a nonsense when refuses to acknowledge what spending splurge happened under the last Labour government, and the extent of the financial recession that resulted a massive economic recession from 2008 to 2009 – when the increased tax receipts of a Brown engineered financial bubble, burst, leaving the massive £153 bil 2010 government budget deficit – passed on the Conservatives.

Around 2001 when the UK tax receipts vs spending was in a small SURPLUS the UK government spending was just over £400billion (in 2009 prices) a year, but by 2008/9 the UK government was spending £618billion – as the ‘fixed costs’ of a much larger State under Labour massively grew, but the financial/economic recession causing banks and private sector companies contraction and jobs losses meant far less taxes coming in – hence Labour passed on to the Conservative Coalition what was to be a £153 billion annual government overspend in 2010

From the 2009 government spending of £618 billion under Labour, in 2017 government spending under the Conservatives will be around £784 billionl

So it’s a Labour myth there has been Conservative spending cuts, its just the rate of growth in non protected departmental budgets slowed – as the Conservatives had to try to fix the Labour governments largest annual cash overspend in UK history – that in 2010 was far larger than any Eurozone country, including Greece, with NO PLANS (or idea) in place how to fix it.

Labour’s Chancellor prior to the election in 2010 Mr Darling tried to warn UK voters that to FIX their deficit that there would be tax rises and spending cuts “deeper than under Thatcher” – but they’d give voters the details AFTER they vote in the (2010) election – pretty similar to the majority of Corbyn’s ‘tax and spend’ plans in their last manifesto.

Real UK (inflation adjusted) earnings fell from 2008 when the recession hit under Labour, but they chose to try and sustain the much higher cost State, not to help with tax cuts for the poorest workers as other countries did – in fact Chancellor Darling projecting a £167 billion 2010 government deficit if they remained in power, chose to RAISE National Insurance to now poorer workers and companies on their recession knees – which was not only a tax ON JOBS, Mr Darling acknowledge would COST UK jobs.

So Labour’s post 2010 idea in the face of Thatcher ‘austerity’ was to continue to raise taxes for everyone and making the recession worse.

While the Conservative through tax cuts to companies have seen since 2010 2.5 million more jobs (more than the Eurozone countries put together) and tax cuts to its citizens, like the raising the start rate of tax under Labour of around £6,300, to around £11,500 now and soon rise further, taking millions out of paying tax altogether.

So no Conservative in my view has to apologise for not reducing Labour’s budget deficit faster, as they also had to stop companies going bust, give them confidence to hire, and reduce taxes - rather than the ‘alternative’ under Labour’s only plan to RAISE taxes for all - in a lame socialist attempt to ‘tax the UK to sustainable growth’.

My experience is that no matter which party is in power there is no change

Well consider yourself extremely lucky that you're rich enough that the very real cuts made since 2009 in services haven't touched you.

After all the amount of money they have to play with is always the same.

That isn't how it works. It really isn't.

My experience is that no matter which party is in power there is no change. After all the amount of money they have to play with is always the same. They might spread the cash in slightly different ways but there is never enough to make a difference. Smoke and mirrors.

Boynamedsue

So called ‘austerity’ is the result of the UK spending more than it earned from the £153 billion a year in 2010, to around £52 billion more now – so getting our books in order (as the UK spends more every year) can only be slowed down, not ended – as the UK is already paying over £40 billion A YEAR in interest, servicing the current national debt, that could be better spent on UK services etc.

Bank of England Interest rates at the lowest level ever since the BoE was formed, can only now go up, and the recent BoE 5 to 3 vote shows that interest rates rises putting UP the service costs of current debt, never mind new, is closer than ever.

That £153 billion overspend in 2010 was the largest cash deficit in Europe by far, from the worst UK recession in growth LOSS terms during 2008/9 in over 80-years, and although the reduction has dragged on for far too long, the government already slowed the deficit reduction process down by reducing taxes for the people and businesses, which is why we had the best job growth in the Eurozone by far.

While you might be pleased about the list of spending and borrowing Labour put out in their manifesto on the road to Greece, that will dramatically increase the interest charge taxpayers cough up by running annual deficits adding annually to the National Debt (that could be better spent on services) – lets remember into 2016 Labour’s shadow chancellor McDonnell was still saying that Labour needed to be responsible in annual spending along the lines of the Conservatives – if nothing else, to repair the damage to Labour’s economic competency reputation, based on what they left in 2010.

The fact Labour’s 2017 manifesto repeats all the mistakes made by Labour in the 2000s, and then some, is another story, but it shows the Conservative change in policy is nowhere near as extreme as Labour’s under Corbyn and McDonnell.

Who says ‘throwing the dice’ when the polls are against you, don’t work. lol

...they're also fairly mainstream policies for the more progressive countries on the continent right now. It's odd how we've become so much more communicative and apparently liberal/ outward-looking nowadays yet our knowledge of our nearest neighbours actually seems to be reducing.

Not only was the Labour manifesto mainstream for a Labour manifesto, at one point quite a lot of it was also mainstream for the Liberals under Lloyd George (housing, social care, wages, etc.). Such policies also formed a big part of the postwar consensus supported by the Tories. So either LG and the mid-20th century Tory party were secret Stalinists or what passes for mainstream politics in this country has swung to the right over the last 30 or so years.

JC is not "extremely left", he's just left! Since New Labour happened

I agree, pre-Blair, Labour's election manifesto would have been utterly unremarkable, pedestrian almost.

I know Jc is anti monarchist, anti grammar schools to the point of divorce, I'd say that was a bit more extreme than 'just left'

Being opposed to grammar schools (as many people are) and opposition to the monarchy(a move supported by dangerous radicals like Martin Amis & Daniel Radcliffe) are hardly, off the radar, Chairman Mao stuff are they? Anyway whilst Corbyn is personally a republican, he accepts the Labour party policy on not abolishing the monarchy, which is a shame but still.

I think there's a lot of cobblers being spouted, a lot of knives being sharpened, and a lot of smoke blowing up to screen various messes. I don't trust anything any of them say at the moment. I'll believe it when I'm holding it.

They are the old socialist left - old Marxists in fact!

From the top of my head I know Jc is anti monarchist, anti grammar schools to the point of divorce, I'd say that was a bit more extreme than 'just left'

Youarenot, JC is not "extremely left", he's just left! Since New Labour happened, it's been so long since we had anybody left of centre in power you've forgotten what it looks like!

We have borrowed more under the Tories than ever before! Our children will be lumbered with the debt. Not that they will earn enough to pay the high taxes that will be needed but don't let that bother anyone! The future looks dismal for everyone!

I think it will end up turning out to be for the best in the long run if they alter the austerity and find a better economic model which affects the most needy the least.

I said to a friend the other day that JC is extremely left and TM extremely right. If you look at the percentage figures of votes and then look at all those not entitled to vote or unable (most would be typical labour supporters due to the nature of their needs) it's probably a very equal split between the 2 parties.

If JC could take a step to the right and TM a step to the left this country could do great things and we could retire some balance.

I'm not a TM fan and not a Tory - but I do support her and am gaining confidence in her as she moves away from a more Thatcher type rein.

I voted Conservative. I'm not annoyed with May at all. Well only for calling a snap election and a dismal election campaIgn. I hope she hangs on in there and rides out this period of hate by the left and media.

She really can't win

Probably because she keeps back-tracking and changing her mind, anything to cling on to power. She's beginning to make Cameron look like a decent PM.