Why don't people like Nick Clegg

Obviously an extra £24,000 plus 6% interest is nothing to you. In which case, please send the money our way.

Erm...£27k assuming a 3 year degree? And actually the raise has had a direct impact on my OH's life and reduced his choices. But anyway, I worded it badly. What I meant is I don't see why people see NC as responsible for the tuition fee raise when there was nothing he could have done, in coalition or not, not have stopped it.

I don't get the tuition fees thing - and neither does my 18yo DD who will be starting her degree this autumn, loan forms all filled out already, and she understands better than most how it works (she and DH did some modelling of how much she will pay when for a variety of scenarios. Yes, its a lot). But, either the individual pays - when they are earning enough - or everyone does. A service 'free at the point of delivery' is good if it is something which applies to everyone (e.g. primary and secondary education) and progressive if it is particularly beneficial to the less advantaged/vulnerable (e.g. NHS). But tuition fees are of benefit mainly to the more advantaged half of young people. Regressive, not progressive.

I don't understand why people won't forgive them for the tuition fees

Obviously an extra £24,000 plus 6% interest is nothing to you. In which case, please send the money our way.

I have no problem with him being in a coalition, But he had a chance to temper the damage that the tories did and he folded on every single pledge that he made.

I've heard the argument that the Lib Dems restrained the Tories worst excesses on the doorstep. But isn't the point that if they hadn't gone into coalition the Tories wouldn't have been able to get much done anyway as a minority government. They wouldn't have needed restraining as they were already restrained by not having a majority. Isn't that effectively what would happen now if the DUP decide they don't want to support them?

Slow typer - I disagree with Lillian

I disagree. He wanted to be able to actually influence policy and govern, and was far better able to do that in coalition with some of his MPs on the front bench than as a small 3rd party.

He and the other LD's did so much good in their time in office I don't understand why people won't forgive them for the tuition fees - things could have been so much worse if they hadn't been involved.

No one at the time foresaw the brexit shambles so saying he should have kept his powder dry for that fight would have required a supernatural level of precognition!

Unfortunately the black and white approach we have to parties and policies in this country means that we are unhappy with the idea of compromise and consensus. We remember people only for the thing they said they'd do that they didn't achieve, not for all the things they did achieve.

Look at all the people on this thread saying NC was vain and loved the power. We have such an odd attitude to people who are genuinely trying to do what they believe is best, but who don't always succeed. I think Tim Farron's summing up was right; NC put country before party and people can't forgive him for that.

I think it's a very limited and not very mature way of thinking about politics, but I think our entire political structure (Us Against Them) leads to immature and tribalistic thinking. What we need is discussion and compromise. What we get is entrenched positions.

I've heard him talk in real life about the tuition fees thing. Apparently he and Vince Cable didn't want it to be part of the Lib Dem manifesto at the time but because of the democratic way in which the Lib Dem party runs things when the membership wanted it included he couldn't insist on it not being included himself.

I also think he was caught between a rock and a hard place re.the Coalition. It's (relatively) easy to be the Opposition but this was the Lib Dem's only chance of being in power and they (bravely) took it. They definitely had a tempering effect on Tory policy during the Coalition years.

I like him, I think he's a good principled politician and I hope he doesn't walk away from politics now. I think he's especially useful to have around as a committed Remainer.

He sacrificed his party for his own vanity - he loved being deputy PM. I couldn't believe it when I heard he was going into coalition with Tories and thought he was signing his own death warrant at the time.

Sorry that should say who would believe.

I don't know, there's no other politician I'd rather see as PM and I'm gutted he lost his seat. He sacrificed his party for the good of the country and people won't forgive him for it.

He had no choice but to agree to the tuition fees deal as the minority party, but because of him and the other LD MP's Tory damage in 2010-2015 was restricted.

Personally I think it's a shame, he was a good figurehead for the party which was slowly making gains. Had he bided his time and resisted the lure and glamour of being deputy PM the Lib Dems could have played a big part in opposing Brexit with more MPs in the chamber and the prospect of making more gains by offering a real alternative if more were elected. Who wouldn't believe anything a Lib Dem promises now? As a previous poster put it so well, it is like the Labour Party getting into power and privatising the NHS. They have a massive hill to climb - he has set them back years. He only himself to blame though - brought down by hubris just like Cameron was and May is about to be.

Some of the tax changes he insisted on were pretty ridiculous. Such as the wholly unfair removal of child benefit for either parent earning over £50k, but no loss for two parents earning under £50k. Plenty of others too which seemed to have been worked out on the back of a fag packet whilst under the influence.

He shouldn't have gone into coalition, he'd set out his parties stall on tuition fees which gained a lot of support and should have stayed in a position that allowed his MPs to vote against that policy. The free school meals debacle didn't help - lovely idea but costly in practice, I'd rather those funds went on teachers than meals for families who can afford to pay.

He lost the trust of the public and his party have paid for it since.

I like Nick Clegg as a person but I don't think he should be in charge of anything

Also the student vote is much bigger is Sheffield central. I think only one student hall is in Hallam and the student housing has moved over the past few years. Old student houses are now family houses.

He had one flagship policy - abolish tuition fees - and didn't just not achieve it (which would have been understandable given it was a coalition), but allowed the Tories to TRIPLE fees.

It's akin to Labour getting into government and then privatising the NHS.

I truly like Nick Clegg as a person, but how could you ever trust someone like that politically again?

What Lillian said mostly. He was far more interested in getting the deputy pm job than he did about sticking to his principles. He may have negotiated the best deal for students he could at the time he should have been far stronger and far more vocal about the Tory policies he opposed and far far stronger on the tuition fees. He really shot himself in the foot going into that coalition.

The Hallam constituency hasn't changed since 2010 - so no extra labour voters added.

Nick Clegg's voting record hasn't been great since the 2015 election has not been good. Think I read it was around 30%.

....in that they were voting heavily for Labour because of the free tuition Corbyn bribed them with.

Which - and let's not be naive about this - is just one big bung to the middle classes. Paid for by the poor as well.

He sold his soul and his party's principles for a chance to be deputy prime minister. He should never have got into bed with the Tories - I like the man, I agree with his views which is why I could never for the life of me understand why he did what he did. He should have said, as other parties are saying now, we will look at each vote on a case by case basis - we may support you on some things, but you can't count on us for everything. The tuition fees thing was suicide. He had his moment in the sun (or the rose garden), but in doing so destroyed his party. That's why people don't like him.

Ok. For those of you who think he shouldn't have gone into coalition with the Conservatives, what should they have done? Left the country with a minority government, effectively unable to govern? Or accept that the Conservative party won by far the largest number of seats (I think "will of the people" is the stupid phrase du jour) and try to allow the country to function while getting a bit of the Lib Dem agenda through. They couldn't implement all of it because they didn't win!

Arguably, they picked the wrong "totemic policy" in the STV referendum, but that's the biggest criticism I can level. I think history will judge Clegg more kindly than he's judged now.

....in that they were voting heavily for Labour because of the free tuition Corbyn bribed them with.

Also mighty as he is in Sheffield Hallam I imagine the student vote was huge against him.