Unwritten social codes in England

I don't know. But it is one of the few things that's cheering me up at the moment for some bizarre reason [b;usb]

Is it a British thing Almond? Don't they do in the US or anywhere else?

I love it.

I have photos of my dogs at the polling a while now, this is definitely not the first time, not sure when it started.

I don't know what it says about us, what I like it the look of utter bemusement or boredom the dogs display. I suppose it brings a more whimsical element, some canine human interest into what was a brutal campaign.

but what is it al about Chardonnay? I love it but who started it and what does it say about the Brits?

The only reason I went voting today is so I can post a Dogs in a polling station photo.

Honestly.

Please, can anyone explain the dogs at polling stations phenomenon?

I am fascinated by this and wonder of other countries do this? It's rather eccentric isn't it but that doesn't this in with the English being non-conforming. Is it the world famous British sense of humour?

If you're upper class you can look down a little at Kate Middleton for being 'from trade'

Do you think these class markers are changing or weakening with American/ global culture influences and the growing arrival of immigrants snd so on?

Not in my experience. First generation immigrants will always be "foreign" and are sort of allowed not to know the rules. By the 3rd generation, people seem to fully understand and have found their place. Some of the most staunchest MC people I have met are of Indian origin.

They are both totally flexible and astonishingly rigid depending on geography/age/which social class you were to start with. Clear as mud?

The landed gentry socialise and marry each other generall. The very very working class also. Everywhere else there is more fluidity.

Driving to and from Exeter today, I considered what clearly marked my husband as UMC/landed gentry.
It was
The Christening gown handed down and used by all children since about 1700.
The bridal tiara worn by all brides since time began and which will be kept in perpetuity for futures family brides.
The furniture handed down through the generations.
The soup tureen, fish kettle and similar.

Then the food -
Porridge (watery and salty)
Boiled eggs
Kedgeree
Game - especially rabbit
Trout and other freshwater fish.
Sausage rolls
Rice pudding
Single malt whiskey

Not hummus, crudités, sushi, wraps, smoothies or paella (unless in Spain), Pimms.

I immediately thought of these two memes that were doing the rounds:

Oh and OP, yes you had started this thread in the wrong bit of the forum, but personally I need some light relief from election ranting so thanks for brightening up the politics zone!

I still find Jilly Cooper's 'Class' to be the funniest and most deadly accurate description, although there are some shocking casual references to sexist, homophobic and racist behaviours that were normal then but that are now taboo. In some ways the world has moved on since the 1970's, but in others it's not changed at all.

"An American colleague and I recently discussed how bewildering the English class system is to us since it based on social rather than economic capital and often what would be considered glamorous in other cultures is looked down upon as gauche here."

This is a confidence trick that the aristocracy have played on the rest of us! If you visit a stately home and take a look at the stuff they bought for themselves at the height of their wealth and power; it is vulgar and blingy.
In fact when stately homes get renovated to the original state its common for middle class visitors to complain about the sudden vulgarity.

It was only when the middle class started to emerge as a power that the aristo's suddenly decided that everything had to be elegantly faded and passed down through a dozen generations. They were basically claiming that other classes were doing money wrong.

And this has continued through the years and down the ranks so that you now find middle class people complaining that the objects working class people find aspirational and tacky and chavy.

Its fucking ridiculous. You can't get spending money wrong. You cant be wealthy in the wrong way. Its testament to our ridiculous class deference that we have bought into this.

I'm a little surprised that appearing too intellectual is taboo- why is that?

The answer lies in the previous comment:

Oh, and the absolute basic rule is to avoid being pretentious. So, no showing off

Basically, it's fine to be intellectual or clever or talented, but don't show off about it - or indeed do anything that could be interpreted as showing off, which includes simply being frank about your abilities.

So if I'm fluent in French and someone asks me about it (in a social setting rather than a job interview), I'd reply along the lines of "well, I can get by enough to order myself a Chablis", rather than "yes, I can pass for a native Parisienne"!

Independent schools are called private by mc people and public by uc people

No. All independent schools are called 'private schools' by WC, Lower MC and some Middle MC.

A small number of independent schools (mostly the oldest ones) are called 'public schools'. UC and some middle MC tend to use the terms 'independent' or 'public' schools depending on which applies.

Regarding anti intellectualism, it is very much seen as boasting in some circles to talk about being academic
So true too.
It is very clear that in my dcs secondary, aiming for Oxford is not well seen. This is 'boasting' and my very able dc has struggles a lot because that sort of attitude.
Ive seen it too in parents putting down big unis (Oxford or durham) because 'they are too academic'. These are from Mc but very well educated people (think GPs etc...). Or going on at how xx went to Durham but you know she isnt that clever

It not an issue about talking about yourself as such. It a full rejection of 'academia' that I have seen.

Regarding anti intellectualism, it is very much seen as boasting in some circles to talk about being academic.

I think that it depends how you do it. We don't like flashy but we do like sincere.
We like David Attenborough, Mary Beard and Stephen Hawking who are clever and knowledgeable, without flaunting it. It is their state of 'being'. As opposed to people like Stephen Fry or Boris Johnson, who have to keep talking about themselves it all the time.

@TheDowagerCuntess I agree with your point. And the same thing applies when they want specific presents for Christmas/birthdays by giving hints and leaving clues around the house. Dh thought that all women did this. I had to tell him off. If i want something specifically, I will not hint at it and leave clues around the house like MIL but state it. If I look at something and said it looks nice, it does not mean I want it in my house.

And then when they don't get the present they are passive aggressive.

Oh! And MIL would never have profiteroles for a dinner party because it's very common.

I never worry about class identifyers in regard of what I do.

It's fun observing though.

We are polite. It is not polite to criticise or carp or complain. So we hint, heavily.

Sorry, I need to qualify that remark. We do not get angry or cross on our own behalf. We do get angry on behalf of others - see numerous examples of social justice from abolitionism to Oxfam to Live Aid.

I have one upper mc parent and one wc. And married a middle class DH. We are probably umc now. I find it all fascinating, and so many of the stereotypes are true. I don't have natural social skills so I analyse class situations a lot.

I cant stand my in-laws' mc matching furniture and curtains. My wc dad could never afford that, and my umc mum inherited lots of furniture. My DH recently convinced me to buy a bed from a department store-very mc.

Regarding anti intellectualism, it is very much seen as boasting in some circles to talk about being academic (I'm choosing my words very carefully from years of practice). I live in a mc/wc area and would avoid mentioning that I studied at Oxford except to very close friends. However when mixing with the upper mc I might mention it to show that I fit in.

The things I talk about are very much dependent on the class of the people I talk to. But always avoid money or politics.

I think being polite is a middle class thing. Most of the actual UC people I've met have been pretty upfront and loud. As with many of the WC people I've known over the years. I think it's more about individuals whereas there are very few MC people ready to break with convention.