Genuine question for Tory voters

tookawhile
I suggest the u turn on dementia tax wasn't a great example of competent policy making,

Isn't that my point, when policy is unpopular, a U turn can be forced. What can you do about incompetence during Brexit negotiation?

Lady you are being too logical by half! The thing is, there are decent arguments to be made about the impact of austerity. Hysterical hand wringing about the "miwwwions" of children in abject poverty just denigrates the entire argument.

And there will be a damn sight more impoverished children if our economy collapses.

The thing is the Tories always talk tough but don't deliver. TM has had 7 years to cut immigration - non EU immigration was always within the Uk government control and they could have changed benefits legislation etc to make things less appealling for unskilled EU citizens to move here - they didn't. Big business want an unlimited supply of labour to hire cheaply on poor or no contracts that the nation as a whole subsidises through tax credits etc. They don't care if people only work a few years and then go on benefits. They like not picking up the costs of training people for skills shortages but robbing the rest of the world of their investment in their young.

Remember this from Cameron www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/david-cameron-refuses-pay-eu-bill-december-deadline

It was later quietly all paid. We are constantly sold a pup - the "special relationship with the US" we were theonly country that had to repay the US their war and after war loans - we only finished repaying it all about 12 years ago. It gave the other EU countries a clear advantage.

How can anyone vote for TM knowing this: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html

Your families lives if forfeited to terrorism are merely the price TM is willing to pay (collateral damage) as the price of doing business with the Saudis

At least Labour are more upfront about their stance on these issues.

The debates do nothing for me. I agree with PPs, it's just a shouting contest against whoever's in power.

I haven't swayed at all, I'm voting Conservative because I think they'll do the best for us with Brexit.

I don't dislike Corbyn, I just think with Brexit and the loon across the pond, it has to be May.

Yes hackmum, and the opposition to the NHS was ferocious. Anyone (apart from Jeremy Hunt) sorry they introduced it?

Agree though that these things are really not black and white for most people. I've been on a lot of Labour supporting threads recently and I know I'm not the only party member who dislikes Corbyn. I voted against him twice and would do so again if a decent candidate appeared. It won't make me vote Tory though because Brexit is the main issue for me. I want Keir Starmer negotiating that, not the clowns TM has lined up.

Mind you, I also think the Tories made this Brexit mess so they should clean it up. The problem is that education, NHS and social care will suffer terribly for it.

The problem is I don't know how much I want any of the main parties in power. I don't like a lot about any of the leaders. It's terrible at the minute. I don't have a clue how to vote. Doesn't matter anyway though, as I'm in a Tory safe seat.

Abitofaproblem Well campaigning against the policies that have left people in such difficulties hasn't worked so far.

I think we could all throw a few incompetence accusations around at all parties. I suggest the u turn on dementia tax wasn't a great example of competent policy making, and the lib dems can't seem to get their leader to say that homosexuality isn't a sin.

silky it astounds me that people want to borrow more money and shackle our grandchildren with debt.

It worries me that many younger voters don't remember the 1970's and the epic fuck up of the economy by a Labour government. History has not treated Thatcher kindly, but at least she kicked the unions into touch.

The recent tragic events in Manchester will strengthen Tory support, because surely nobody wants a terrorist apologist (who think those calling for Jihad on the West have "done nothing wrong") as PM in such troubling times.

4 million children in poverty? That's a lot. The number of under 18s in the UK is 11 million. So, what would that be, over one in three children and indeed teens in poverty.

I don't think we can take your posts very seriously when you trot out statistics like that.

Where is Corbyn going to get this money to nationalise Rail and plough into services, he has to increase taxation, not only for the rich, but for middle income earners too. I do not like his support of terrorism groups.

I worry because it seems a rerun of the EU ref and the US elections.
People voting for someone because they promise the moon and stars and of course that's all lovely to hear.

The children in poverty undoubtedly deserve help, but they won't get it once the economy starts to shrink and there's nothing left to tax and no foreign investment because of Brexit and high taxes.

Marxism is only good on paper, most of us flirt with in in University and then grow up.

I never have and can't imagine circumstances in which I would ever vote Tory. However, I was planning to vote Lib Dem or Green instead of my usual Labour vote. Since the debates I'm seriously considering voting Labour.

Tbf from what I am seeing, the Labour supporters on my social media are quite bullying and intimidating, "you have to vote Labour" "its the only way", "if you don't vote Labour, your heartless and cruel", nowonder Tory voters are undercover and covert. I don't agree with a lot of Corbyn and his manifesto, he is talking the talk, but i don't believe he can walk the walk and run this country, and get us a good Brexit deal.

Do we really have a say, or is it a done deal, like Brexit?
I think all the Politicians are just puppets, their strings being pulled by the megga rich.
We are the plebs even the ones who think they are wealthy, we mean jack shit to the lot of them. It makes no difference who you vote for or even if you vote at all.
HTH

Nope.
What I find most annoying is people trying to argue me out of whoever I'm going to vote for. 'You're telling me you're going to vote for a party that blah blah blah and blah?' 'What?! Did you actually read the manifesto?' 'Did you know if you vote for them blah blah blah?' It's highly irritating, I am capable of making an informed decision thanks!

So many mumsnetters who obviously don't care about the 4 million children in poverty in this country, or about their mums who are presenting at their gp's (when they can get an appointment) with malnutrition. Or the disabled people who have had their benefits cut. Have a little compassion.

This is such trite shit. Of course anyone that votes Tory must be a compassionless ogre.

I think for me Amber Rudd was right about the magic money tree. I imagine it's where the Mumsnet magic chicken roosts at night.

Hillingdon How annoying of me to bring up those pesky hungry children!

It's just an inability to understand how you can't look at the devastating plight of some people in this country and vow not to condemn them for another 5 years of the same.

But you're right and so I won't mention the NHS or education or housing. I wouldn't want to make a fuss...

Perhaps it's a good time to remind people that the manifesto on which Labour was elected in 1945 was a "fantasy", yet it resulted in the founding of the NHS as well as the modern welfare state. If they'd been held back by people inanely shouting "magic money tree" at them, we'd all still be paying every time we wanted to go to our GP, or have an operation, or ended up in A&E with appendicitis.

Labour didn't cause the GLOBAL financial crisis ffs. It's hilarious when people moan about labours magic money tree when the tories have produced a completely uncosted manifesto and have increased the national debt despite all our services being decimated. Where has all the money gone these past 7 years? They can't even put a figure on the winter fuel allowance or dementia cap. It astounds me so many people are willing to vote on blind faith.

tookawhile I am not a Tory fan I may vote Lib Dem, but any individual policies by the government can be campaigned against.

Incompetence, however, cannot be easily rectified.

You probably should have aimed this thread at swing voters. Politics is so tribal these days that there is very little that May or Corbyn could do that would stop Conservative and Labour voters from voting for them. Very little.

If it had been Corbyn who refused to take part in the debate rather than May, you could bet your life savings that Conservative voters would be calling him a coward who is unable to stand up to the pressure, while Labour voters would be praising him for not lowering himself to level of this modern, meaningless, unintellectual spectacle.

Foxychox - the 3 day week was under the Tories

BeyondThePage
This ^
Right wing does not equal Brexit supporter.
I'm far from right wing. I voted for Michael Foot, arguably the most left wing Labour leader ever. He was a decent man though. I'm just not prepared to risk the future of this country on Jeremy Corbyn and John MacDonnell. If pretty much anyone else was leader I'd vote for them.

I don't think they have run the best campaign ever, not by far, but I live in total fear of any other party trying to run the country. (Having lived and worked through the 70s, the 3-day week and the power of the unions.)

This.

The hard left faction has been notably quiet recently but if Labour get in this is what we have to worry about. And if you don't remember the 70s, google it.

I didn't think it would be long before someone came out and said about the children in poverty and the disabled. Even if you don't vote Labour doesn't mean that you don't have compassion..

Still, lets see what happens next week. My view is that there are shy tories and the left rent a crowd on social media are out in force just like last time but there are people who quietly vote for who they think is most capable of taking us out of Europe. Do you really think JC and DA have the skills and experience to do this and get a good deal??