Genuine question for Tory voters

Wavered a bit, it has been an appalling campaign, but I will still vote Tory.

I thought I might vote libdem but I can't as I'm a leaver.

I don't actually mind JC on a personal level, but just can't imagine him as pm. His ideals are just that and don't look workable.

I think we are heading for a hung parliament which won't be great for business or the markets. No certainty.

tookawhile ask for all that fine, but all of it is just funded on immediate borrowing. Labour want to borrow money, with little discussion on how to repay this, we're still in debt thanks to our lovely bankers. A labour government means more debt. More debt means more austerity and in the long run poorer quality of life.

Conservative are doing things the right way, which is obviously the hard way. They want to fix the economy first, and then fund public goods and services when we know we can afford to with a strong economy. Why spend more on public goods/services with money you don't have in the first place?

Well, I do admit you really do need better working conditions if two adults are only pulling in £8 a week...

Now, come on, LadyCement, you're not that stupid.

I also do not want handouts. I'm quite satisfied with the working tax credits at the level they currently at.

What I do want is changes to UC or for it to be scrapped. Once our area moves to that I'll be approx £50 p/m worse off. I just do not have that kind of money to spare. I am barely able to feed us now.

I also want better funding to the NHS, in particular child and adolescent mental health and better funding to schools. Those things would personally benefit me and make me more able to improve our current situation. I'd also welcome rent controls, better regulation of letting agents and scrapping of the bedroom tax.

No, I haven't changed my mind and sent my postal vote a couple of days ago.

No way in hell would I vote for Labour. The last Labour government very nearly bankrupted the country, and I think that Corbyn and his ridiculous manifesto promises would finish the job.

The massive amount of PFI debt that Labour ran up last time building new schools and hospitals was shocking. A hospital that should have cost £70 million to build will now cost £350 million by the time that is paid off.

It's also very obvious from Corbyn's refusal to comment at all on the matter that he will do absolutely nothing to bring down immigration, which is what most people are concerned about. Current infrastructure cannot cope with even the amount of people here currently. Promising free everything to anyone in England and not capping immigration in any way is going to be disastrous for this country.

Well, I do admit you really do need better working conditions if two adults are only pulling in £8 a week...

It seems you are trying to appeal to posters' pockets...

Yeah you're running out of arguments now aren't you. I am not asking for handouts, just better working conditions, fair rents and an NHS that is safe from privatisation.

It seems you are trying to appeal to posters' pockets...

LadyinCement

*This thread shouldn't get derailed but £8 to feed a family of 3 for a week? For a start two children's child benefit would amount to more than £8.

I think you should have come up with a more realistic amount than eight pounds if you want people to believe you.*

Wow, Lady you really are a piece of work!

Firstly, a family of 3 in my case consists of 2 parents and 1 child, so your comment about having two child benefit payments is wrong. Also child benefit is paid once a month and I stretch it as far as I can but there is not only food to buy but clothes and shoes etc...

Secondly, I didn't say I only had £8 every week, I stated that we aren't the poorest but due to our situation we have lean times, and they happen regularly not rarely.

For you to suggest that I am lying only illustrates how ignorant you are about others' situation in this country.

It is the standard Tory argument to blame the poor for being poor because it means they don't have to do anything about it.

I can see that this is pointless though trying to appeal to your better nature.

I did question the free tuition fees figure on the labour manifesto
assuming 1.5 million uni students with tuition fees of say 7K a year (not to mention the maintenance grants to be offered) that comes to more than their carefully costed figure plus it would be over 3-5 years over the next parliament - are my sums wrong? I admit I am no mathematician
Is the costing over 5 years of a parliament?

In that case took I would suggest this bit of my post is more applicable:

A very great injustice imo is the working poor and I favor measures to make work pay. I believe that only the stories are addressing this.

But feel free to lampoon me for stuff I didn't actually say. After all, I am a Tory and on MN that means I probably boil kittens for sport.

TV debates offer little in the way of substance for me. 5 of the parties in the last debate have absolutely nothing to lose by offering their utopian vision for the UK as they will never be in a position to have to actually implement it. Labour on the other hand had a golden opportunity in this election to offer a genuine alternative. Instead, Jeremy Corbyn seems to have virtually no appeal to swaying voters of any other stripe. IMO he has swung Labour's policies to far to the left into what many voters see as fiscal cloud cuckoo land.

I'd welcome a more centrist alternative but it just doesn't exist. It has to be Conservative for me.

Ultimately it concludes that the time to cut back (ie for austerity) is during the good times, not the hard times - and this is where in my opinion the Tories did not make the tough decisions, they made the wrong ones.

You are right, it is always considerably more nuanced than these threads (or indeed TV debates, to go back to the point of this thread!) suggest. However, the above premise also suggests that Brown's spending spree during the boom was also a wrong decision. That was the time for (relative) austerity and it didn't happen.

Fair point about calling GB a moron - I just feel frustrated at the lack of talent in the Labour Party. I am a dyed-in-the-wool Tory, but a credible opposition is essential for checks and balances. Brown seemed to think he had a god-given right to govern and Corbyn has floated to the top like flotsam over the course of a long and fairly undistinguished career, largely because the alternatives were even less credible.

I've just read that a single mother with two children would receive £214 a week after housing costs. Is that correct?

No, it's not.

I'm a self employed, single mother of two. I get slightly less than that in Tax Credits and child benefit each week. Out of that I have to pay top up rent and council tax, along with other essentials. (£208 p/w I think)

Someone on unemployment benefits with two kids would get less than that but wouldn't have as much top-up rent or council tax to pay.

To those of you who might be wavering about who to vote for.....

Corbyn supported the murderous IRA
He thinks there is nothing wrong with squatters (think about that next time you go away on holiday)
He would allow the floodgates on immigration to remain open
He wants to get rid of Trident thereby leaving us defenceless.
He supports Trade Unions (who bankroll the Labour party) so we would be back to the wildcat strikes of the 70s

The man is a dangerous imbecile, whose only intention is to drag the Labour party further and further to the left.

This thread shouldn't get derailed but £8 to feed a family of 3 for a week? For a start two children's child benefit would amount to more than £8.

I think you should have come up with a more realistic amount than eight pounds if you want people to believe you.

YoungGirlGrowingOld

Another is parents making bad spending choices or failing to prioritize their kids.

Zero hours, self employed, unreliable, unpredictable income are the reasons we often have no money. That and very high private rent. We are a working family and always prioritise our child. I never buy anything for myself... oh sod it, why should I have to justify my life to you.

It is just so illuminating to me. People who have no idea how difficult other people's lives are passing judgment, saying it's their own fault and voting for more tax breaks for the rich while people are literally starving in this country.

But never mind, as the person who is genuinely trying to address these issues forgot a number one day during a busy election campaign, so he must be useless...

OP I voted several weeks ago before the TV debates as I have a postal vote. TV debates have never changed my mind in the past and the leaders debates are only a recent thing. I didn't watch them this time though. I find them to be a load of squabbling to be honest.

No I haven't changed my mind and I won't do. Not wanting to do TV debates hardly makes TM an unsuitable candidate to lead the country (with the backing of her team of course). The mere threat that Corbyn might win makes me scared - imo that man is severely out of his depth.

And help should be given at the correct level to those who genuinely need it, through no fault of their own.

Took a while to get to the "deserving poor" vs the "undeserving poor", but we got there in the end

YoungGirlGrowingOld I don't think it necessarily flip flops, just puts across a balanced view - and this is why I get frustrated by threads like these, as people make such sweeping and hyperbolic statements (they fucked the economy) when in fact the reality is almost always more nuanced. Ultimately it concludes that the time to cut back (ie for austerity) is during the good times, not the hard times - and this is where in my opinion the Tories did not make the tough decisions, they made the wrong ones.

I worry that the press and the establishment present such a hegemonic and ultimately incorrect view of the world (Labour are always economically incompetent, the Tories always have to clean up their mess) that many of us have absorbed it through a kind of osmosis even if we consider ourselves to be critical thinkers. The references to the 70s on this thread are interesting - I find it astonishing the number of people who are utterly convinced that the 3 day week was under the Labour government (I had a long argument with someone on this the other day who simply wouldn't believe me), and I think this again plays into this mythology that economic issues are always Labour's fault. I'm no fan of Corbyn, but I wish the challenges to his positions were based in truth not scaremongering (viz the endless land tax threads!).

On tax credits - to an extent I agree with you, in the long term this was the wrong solution to the right problem. However, I think your description of Gordon Brown as a moron is unpleasant and untrue, and to be frank this kind of name calling (from both sides) simply demeans the discussion.

I've just read that a single mother with two children would receive £214 a week after housing costs. Is that correct?

I don't mean to be insensitive took but there could be any number of reasons why a person only 8 quid to feed their family. Low wages/benefits are one possibility. Another is parents making bad spending choices or failing to prioritize their kids. In a world of limited resources, it is the job of government to help the former and discourage the latter. The solution is not simply more cash for everyone. I am not suggesting they get it right all the time, but throwing cash at the ills of society is not an instant fix.

A very great injustice imo is the working poor and I favor measures to make work pay. I believe that only the stories are addressing this.

How are these 4 million children living in poverty? What does 'poverty' mean in this instance

We're at the point where we're running out of usable underwear because there just isn't a fiver left at the end of the week. I'd call that poverty. We have no Sky TV and I need internet for work.

If that's my fault, I'm all ears on how to change my circumstances.

NB: Suggestions must include childcare for mentally unwell teenagers if it involves working outside the hours of 9 - 3. It must also include employers who don't mind me leaving at a moment's notice to collect the aforementioned teenager from school if she has a panic attack (this will happen around once a week)

Anyone? No?

That is exactly the conversation DS and I were having this morning Rainbows - so many problems are caused by poor life choices. We all need to take responsibility for our lives and our actions.

And help should be given at the correct level to those who genuinely need it, through no fault of their own.