I think the tories will lose

Aaaannnndddd Arse's post is an example of why the Tory voters stay silent on here...

His campaign efforts for remain were feeble! No media spin; he was half hearted at best!

Sittinonthefloor tell yourself that when the next truly vulnerable person dies due to cuts. or the school/hospital near you closes

I'd also like to point out that Alan Johnson was the Remain leader on Labours side

Your point being what? Alan Johnson is a fine politician and it is a shame he is going. That doesn't excuse Corbyn's lacklustre and apathetic efforts. Corbyn is leader of a party whose official policy was Remain.

And yes I agree that some people have suffered with their ESA and DLA being cut/stopped/questioned etc, but the fact is that 100s of 1000s have been swinging the lead for a long time, and we all know it. So something had to be done. Unfortunately, some people who deserve to be on disability benefit got caught in the crossfire

About all I can manage to that is a hollow laugh.

See how the slur campaign against us worked?

That people genuinely believe the minuscule (yes minuscule, why the hell does no one look up the actual numbers for fraud) amount of people who may fiddle are worth the deaths of people who had cancer, schizophrenia, ms, and all the others.

They aren't saving money from fraud. They are saving money from cutting genuine people off.

The true insult? It's not even working. It's costing far more with this ridiculous system they have set up now.

Arse - many people vote on the overall range of policies + the characters of the proposed leaders and ministers not just on one or two aspects.

Also I'm still pissed off at corbyn for not supporting Remain with any effort - he easily could have made the difference if he'd wanted to.

He campaigned but the media were loving the internal shit show that was the tory divisions at the time so under represented both remain and Corbyn, research has been done on this, Id also like to point out that Alan Johnson was the Remain leader on Labours side

Not a chance they will lose for a simple reason - Labour needs Scotland, and it also needs to win over some traditionally Tory seats. They can't do this on their current lacklustre performance.

We thought it might be a hung parliament. But the 'Shy Tory Voter' phenomenon goes back to the 1990s. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_Factor
That gets them the votes.

I also think JC will lead to us waving goodbye bye to Scotland, selfishly I think we are better off together! Also I'm still pd off at corbyn for not supporting Remain with any effort - he easily could have made the difference if he'd wanted to

Yes. Exactly. His behaviour during the referendum was appalling. All that "ooh , I'm so principled, I could not possibly join with Cameron".

Sittinonthefloor you should still be in no doubt, if you vote Tory it will get worse for disabled people.

At the very least face it and don't lie to yourself.

A vote for Tory is a vote for people to keep disabled people dying, starving and terrified.

Just anyone fucking dare call that 'over dramatic' after you've looked at the figures.

Labour supporters are making the most noise but it doesn't mean that they will win the election.

@sittin GREAT post.

I'm a 'shy conservative'. Most people I know are. My fb feed has been pretty empty of election stuff - apart from a small number of labour people who post really aggressive stuff. I don't enter into debates about politics on mn 'cause I don't really like being attacked in a way I would never attack labour supporters. What some people don't realise is that some of us vote Tory because we think it would be better for the whole country. I think lots of JCs ideas are lovely- yay!!! Give people stuff!!! But I think if we implemented them we'd bankrupt the country and be in a much worse position than we are now - and able to afford less NHS / social care. I do think it's right that free school meals are taken away from those who can afford to pay - it's a daft policy! I do think education needs more money. I do want to care for disabled people. I'm not particularly fussed about immigration. I don't agree with a lot of Tory policy, but overall I think they are the better option out of two (sorry lib dems) rather dismal options. I can't see Corbyn, Abbott, thornberry etc running the country successfully. And in my line of work I have met lots of entitled people who really don't fancy the idea of working. Does that make me selfish? Basically I want a new center ground liberal non-socialist party!

I actually quite like Corbyn as a person; he seems like a lovely man and his heart is in the right place.

But his ideas are too far out, and fantastic, and the country will be bankrupt within a year. I am not not a massive fan of May, nor the Tories, but I am getting increasingly tempted to vote for them as I feel that the Tories are the right party right now.

Caroline Lucas is lovely too, but again, her ideas are not terribly doable.

Don't like Farron or Nuttall.

If I hear Farron say he is going to stop Brexit one more time, I will fucking scream! It's a done deal! The touchpaper has been lit!

And yes I agree that some people have suffered with their ESA and DLA being cut/stopped/questioned etc, but the fact is that 100s of 1000s have been swinging the lead for a long time, and we all know it. So something had to be done. Unfortunately, some people who deserve to be on disability benefit got caught in the crossfire. And the Tories did themselves no favours with employing companies who got paid for everyone they got off the benefits. It was a good idea in principal, but too severe and badly executed. Like the benefit cap and tax credits cap. Something needed doing but they should not have been retrospective IMO.

I think the best we can hope for is a dramatically reduced Tory majority - which leaves them having to clear up the mess; and the hope that Lab/lib/green/ etc can get their act together to act coherently and cohesively to present a strong opposition.

believing all the misrepresentation of Corbyn - but equally people could say you're believing the hype and that the 'misrepresentation' is the real truth. That's what I find so frustrating, just because people believe differently to you it doesn't make them wrong.

I remember thinking Tony Blair was the fucking bees knees and so did many other people and look how that turned out!? Of course those who support Corbyn may be right about him, he may be the next best thing since sliced bread ... but he might not.

Well, you may think it's 'bollocks' and yet here I am wanting disabled people to be supported not approving of the tories record and yet still not thinking JC is capable of doing any better.

The suffering for people with disability wrought by this nasty government is unbelievable.

The best thing for the Labour party would be a sizeable loss then at least Corbyn would go.

Look at the Labour front bench - could you see them as ministers.

Dianne Abbott as chancellor though would have the same comedy/horror value as Boris being Foreign Secretary.

You could watch open warfare breaking out as Corbyn chased away all the billionaires that Sadiq Khan likes because they pay for a lot of the things that make London a success.

I wouldnt be mad if we had a lab/lib/snp coalition

And how do you imagine that would work? The only point of the SNP is to break up the UK. The Lib Dems is unionist party and is campaigning hard in Scotland on that basis- as was Kezia Dugdale for Scottish Labour until Corbyn undermined her.

'Trickle down' austerity economics are a disaster. They've proved it.

Food banks, NHS on its knees, anyone noticed all the homeless reappearing in our streets, cuts in education.

Poor Britain.

I also think JC will lead to us waving goodbye bye to Scotland, selfishly I think we are better off together! Also I'm still p**d off at corbyn for not supporting Remain with any effort - he easily could have made the difference if he'd wanted to.

I do want to care for disabled people

Really?

Really?

Because I can't square that with voting conservative.

Do you know, seven years ago a lot more disabled people and children had a secure income, support, access to the NHS.

In the last seven years, due to Tory cuts, restructuring, changing allowances and entitlements to the point where no one knows who can get what any more:

A) How many people have died (yes the fucking bolding function is overused, but it's warranted there)

B) How many are shitting themselves waiting for the brown envelope of doom every month - will this be the month I need to go to a food bank?

C) Just how much fucking money has been wasted on tribunals (overturning wrong decisions - which is the majority of them)

It was a fucking insult to see amber Rudd say how much more they have paid in disability benefits.

She forgot to say where that money was going.

To the expensive tribunals needed because the torys decided a medical professionals opinion wasn't good enough.

No, instead they pay millions to private companies to 'vet' disabled people and get bonuses if they cut the number down, whether or not they are due to die in a few weeks or can't work without their mobility car.

So no, I don't believe anyone who can bloody read can vote conservative and say they want to help the disabled. It's bollocks.

I'm not happy with ANY of our voting choices. But I don't think JC, Abbott etc are competent - his own MPs don't support him! I was anticipating voting lib dem this time but they haven't really nailed it either. It's all v depressing.

I wish we could get shot of the fave football team mentality of voting 'Oooh supported Tory all me life, and always will!' and believing all the misrepresentation of Corbyn.... I will hope n pray Corbyn gets in...

Lass genuine observation - I can't understand how anyone can be committed enough to be a member of a political party yet decide to vote for a different party with such wildly opposing principles? Aren't you voting for party policies, not the party leader?

Well first of all I don't support policies like re-nationalisation. Secondly if Labour wins he will be PM.I do not think he is fit to be PM and McConnell and Abbott are not fit to be Chancellor or Home Secretary either. Compare them to Brown or Darling or Johnstone- it is 50% laughable and 50% terrifying.

Thirdly I am also a Unionist. Always have been. I voted no in both devolution referenda and the independence referendum. Corbyn as PM would not work to keep the Union.

I have been a not particularly active member on and off. Membership had lapsed and I rejoined to vote against Corbyn.

Peregrina - if you read my whole post you'll see that I don't agree with all the tories policies - but I don't agree with JC either! It's not just about schools / NHS.