I think the tories will lose

And yes, I still believe that it's people swinging the lead for so many years that has caused the problems. Be angry at them, not me

Even when people have been linking government figures showing otherwise?

People are dying due to the cuts. People are suffering due to the cuts. These things cannot be dismissed because it's not convenient to acknowledge them - One person dying in this country due to cuts is too many. I would think those suffering mental health problems are particularly vulnerable given the lack of mental health 'care'.
I do, however, think that those who commit any kind of benefit fraud should be dealt with most severely and that there needs to be ways of weeding them out. The financial abuse of a fragile system set up to support our most vulnerable is quie frankly disgusting and it needs addressing in a way that protects those who are vulnerable. Of course there are always going to be those who 'slip through the net' (fraud wise), but I think it's understandable that people are angry about them and want something done about it. If my own town is anything to go by then I suspect the number of people committing fraud well exceeds the official numbers.

That poster was ranting at people - fine but she can't expect people to just agree with her when she doesn't want a discussion

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them

That is untrue. Have you seen what people have to do to claim now? You have people with terminal cancer being declared fit for work, people committing suicide because their benefits have been stopped.

Still, much easier on the old conscience to think the way do. But you know, you may get ill one day.

I look forward to reigniting this thread on June 9th. That is all.

From The Week

At £1.3bn to £1.6bn, it appears outright benefit fraud accounts for less of a burden on the taxpayer than the £4.4bn officially assumed to be lost by (tax) evaders. So why, the government was asked this week, does it devote more resources to the former?

Anyone?

Jesus!

Disablism alive and well I see.

Letschase the inconvinient disabled person, angry at being driven to extinction out. For being angry.

Anyone that votes Tory is harming disabled people by proxy.

Same as anyone that votes ukip probably doesn't have the friendliest intentions towards immigrants.

sleepyowl12 - Do those figures include the administration/court costs of dealing with the fraudulant claims? Also the cost to the prison system (assuming any have been sent to prison over it)?

10 point lead is two points down from yesterday. Which is down from the day before.

It is going in Labour's direction because people are waking up to the chaotic lack of substance which is Tory party policy (and May won't talk to anyone but her own supporters).

idiots from the Tory party that thought they were really clever signing up to the Labour party to vote for Corbyn

Has anyone ever been shown to have done this? Or is it just more Labour fake news?

I don't think it has been proved. It's also contradictory- you can't on the one hand argue about how popular he is yet based on the numbers who voted for him yet on the other argue it is really Tory fifth columnists who voted for him.

And yy re Brexit. I voted remain but frankly I almost wish I hadn't, given the amount of insults thrown by the remainers, calling them racist, thick etc. I was embarrassed for some of the posters

Raven have you ever actually looked at the figures regarding fraud?
The people who are 'swinging the lead' are incredibly small.
People are dying due to the cuts. People are suffering due to the cuts. These things cannot be dismissed because it's not convenient to acknowledge them.

Of course they wont lose!

much as I would like them to

Nobody is suggesting that you be quiet, just that the ranting at people who have done you no harm, and whose political alliances you know nothing about stops anyone debating with you or taking any of your points on board.

@coconutella, to add, here is the government fraud figures for DLA from 2009 to 2013 gained from a FOI.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/dla_fraud

"The latest estimate of the amounts of Disability Living Allowance paid due to fraud is shown in the table below. It should be noted that, as well as fraud, there are other reasons for over and under payments such as errors by the Department and by the claimant, including the failure to report a change in the impact of their condition.
Year DLA Expenditure Fraud % of expenditure
2012/13 (Preliminary) £13.5bn £70m 0.5%
2011/12 £12.6bn £60m 0.5%
2010/11 £12.0bn £60m 0.5%

No system will have no fraud but with disability benefits it is low.

The amount of people who have suffered because of cuts to disability benefits are nowhere near the amount of people who have been swinging the lead for many years, with very little wrong with them

I can't quite believe what I'm reading in these last few posts.

Is this ignorant shite alright on mumsnet these days?

Sittinonthefloor < Completely agree. The fact is we are all in this together but rather than have rational debate and for us all to try and figure out the fact from the fiction together there is always abuse hurled in every direction. It's depressing.

Also, many of those complaining about Brexit would do well to recall some of their vitriolic attacks on Brexit supporters and assess how many opinions they changed with their attacks. It's all very well to sit their spouting abuse and being angry but if you care so much then you'd do well to try and change peoples opinions with understanding rather than scorn.

In case you were interested coconuttella this is a good start.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/mortality-statistics-esa-ib-and-sda-claimants

I won't bother anymore. I'll just be a good quiet disabled person.

Synster - raven hasn't said anything disablist! And I'd guess most of the country would agree with her!

idiots from the Tory party that thought they were really clever signing up to the Labour party to vote for Corbyn

Has anyone ever been shown to have done this? Or is it just more Labour fake news?

@Ravenblack, your argument that there were more people abusing disability benefit than disability claimants who now who have suffered extremely cruel cuts doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As I said above, Government's own figures said fraud for the disability benefit DLA in 2013, the year it was replaced by PIP was a meagre 0.5%. Secondly, as said on here the govt are paying the private companies now doing the disability benefit, PIP, and out of work sickness benefit, esa, assessments more than any savings. The blame does not lie with disability and sickness claimants in previous years.

And Arse, who would do a better job in the future is a matter of opinion and guess for ALL of us, including you. None of us is right or wrong now because we haven't seen the future yet. Luckily for us we live in a democracy ( sort of) where most of respect that people can have differing political views to us and not assume that they are therefore wrong, selfish and (I'm interpreting from your tone) basically evil.