I think the tories will lose

Dawndonnaagain I've got a funny feeling, call it a hunch, these aren't the sort of people that would take kindly to any disabled person moaning.

After all, there are just sooo many on the fiddle, swimming in their money pools with non dodgy backs cos that's all you need you know, to fake a dodgy back, everyone knows one doing it

We may be wasting our breath,

Yes it was (thread had moved on when I posted)

I think TM is throwing it away tbh...

It's a shame that the Tory leader doesn't seem to see the benefit of engaging in debate.

Is that to me Livia?

If the facts that disabled and terminally ill people are dying due to Tory austerity doesn't affect people's voting, then nothing will. Someone ranting at you on MN shouldn't really make a difference - but the facts and figures should.

There is low fraud for disability benefits - particularly in the last couple of years since austerity really hit and the govt used private companies for assessment. There are real documented cases of deaths due to people having their benefits stopped. Real people, human beings.

I don't know how the people that have orchestrated this, or turn a blind to it, sleep at night, but there you go.

It is not disablist to point out that some people have pretended to be disabled to claim benefits they are not entitled too - and thus reduced the 'pot' for the genuine claimants. Stress, back pain, anxiety etc are not difficult to fake. It's not wrong to be cross about this - I'd have thought the people in real need would be angriest of all! We need a rational discussion of how to allocate the funding - not just a load of shouting! What system can we have that perfectly balances providing for the vulnerable ensuring no one slips through the net with encouraging those who can work / seek work to do so?

JustAnotherPoster00 yes, depressing how easy it is to coax the hard if thinking into 'othering' the vulnerable,

I don't imagine they will bother to engage with you about it - what's the point? You aren't looking for discussion

Raven, what a funny way of arguing. You have a go at the left for disagreeing with you. Yet when presented with facts and figures which go against your disablist claims, you say those figures mean nothing. Sorry, but your reasoning is a tad odd, perhaps you'd explain.
Whilst you're at it, perhaps you can provide evidence for all these people you claim are 'swinging the lead'.

but everyone knows someone who has been swinging the lead.

Everyone thinks they know someone thats doing it I dont doubt thats why the tory narrative of striver not scrounger worked so well

I'd like to hear from a Tory voter which of the Labour Party pledges offends them as much as the Tory welfare and education proposals offend me?

What's that saying again? You can't argue with....

Those figures mean nothing

Yes, do keep on showing your ignorance. It's nice when Tory voters get to see some of the underbelly they've got voting with them.

And as I said, those 'figures' mean nothing.

As I said already, plenty of GENUINELY disabled people deserve to be on the benefit, but everyone knows someone who has been swinging the lead.

Don't pretend it's not true.

calumslist.org/

Arse

Thanks for the link to the stats. These show deaths, they don't show excess deaths which is presumably what you are claiming. I could provide stats giving the total number of school-aged children in U.K, alongside those that have died, and sadly it would be a high number, but on its own it wouldn't prove anything than 'humans are mortal'.

However, I accept that disabled people have had an unduly harsh time under this Government, but it's depressing that no party has really tackled this issue during the campaign.... an open goal for the opposition parties surely!

I'd imagine they'd think anyone who was actually disabled would have a bit more synphathy and a hell of a lot more knowledge about the system.

But arse turned her anger onto everyone who dared question her. And that might make her feel better but it's hardly going to make people change their minds

Youre not disabled Raven I dont think anyone thinks you are from the language youre choosing to use about disabled people so DFOD

Those figures mean nothing.

I'd imagine I'd be ranting if I'd seen a friend die due to pointless disability cuts and was being told to calm down and be polite to the people saying

'Well be sun said there is loads of dossera getting it. Worth your mate dying to get them'

Even when the figures say otherwise

Probably ever so slightly more true of the conservatives though?

Yes @gardengeek things do turn nasty when you say things the far-left don't like. They could have said 'I disagree and think you are wrong.' But no, I get disability wished on me (NICE!) and also get called all sorts of nasty names and get accused of being 'disablist'

As I said, maybe I am disabled myself. How do they know? If I was, I wouldn't tell anyone here anyway. It's nothing to do with them.