You should be ashamed of yourself if you vote Tory and…

I left the UK in 2014, and up to that point I hadn't used any public services the only time I used the NHS was to get a medical form signed off by a GP. But the GP billed my company for that so not sure that counts.

ginny PFI was started by thatcher, it is an entirely right wing concept as is outsourcing, and by the time labour came into power it was difficult/impossible to reverse, is the way the head of contracts within LA legal dpmt explained it to me.

"The sad truth is that if only voters under 40 were voting then Labour would win. "

What the fuck does this mean?

Ebb, based on my experience, have to say I agree. We are too afraid to have a grown up conversation about the NHS. Only recently, I had to make some financial sacrifices and pay for some treatment for my dh. Because NHS care was shoddy and fobbed my dh off with a shit and failing treatment that was cheap.
When I had a baby under the last Labour government, I would have been safer and better cared for by wolves in a ditch. Think Keogh Report bad.
I know this is just anecdata but it is my anecdata. I want Labour to be grown up about this thing it created in the 1940s.
Already thinking whether I can "go to the wall " and get my dd privately insured because I don't trust what we've got to take good care of her if she needs it. Thinking about it, I said.

The NHS is a bloated, bureaucratic, sickening frog

That's actually not true. There is no actual concrete evidence for this. Unless you wish to provide some.

It's all a collection of anecdotes.

The NHS is a bloated, bureaucratic, sickening frog and has been becoming so for a while. It needs total reform if you really want free at point of access care rather than the tinkering around the edges that successive governments have done - it's like talking about who applied the fanciest leeches trying to decipher quite where the rot set in. The fact is that the NHS was never designed to be as big as it has become.

Neither Labour nor the Conservatives can fix it as it is - they can just put it on life support it's just a case of whether it's an iron lung or a feeding tube. At some point it will collapse. One of the parties seems to be trying, possibly badly, to save some of the organs for donation and the other party seems to be against organ donation entirely.

Freezing

*"I have been a nurse in the nhs for 8 years. Prior to that I was a student nurse for 3 years. I have 11 years of experience of the nhs.

Things are getting worse and worse and worse."*

Yep, I quite agree with you. FPI deals made by the labour government have been stripping funds from the NHS on a gobsmaking level.

If you look at what we would have available to spend on the NHS without these ridiculous loans they were tied into the NHS would be so, so, so much better off.

As it is, because of PFI, it is almost impossible to keep enough funding on services.

This is why I hate labour. They have destroyed the NHS. Fuck Iraq, Blair should be in prison for this.

I wonder how many people who vote conservative because they don't like Corbyn are going to look at the landscape after the election with Corbyn gone, a huge Tory majority and nothing anyone can do to stop them implementing whatever shitty ideas they like

Same as now then, with the bonus Corbyn is gone so Labour won't be whipped into supporting everything and can be an Opposition.

Most sensible post on the thread Ginny

theducks

"However I just plead with you to put party politics to one side and please please vote with the NHS in mind. The NHS is one of our most precious resources and is one of the best healthcare systems in the world"

I quite agree with you. I am going to vote with he NHS in mind above any other issue or above party politics.

That is why I will never, ever, ever vote Labour again. Because I care passionately about the NHS and I want it to survive.

Fair enough, Ginny, you have good justification for avoiding both parties. I have a lot of family that work in the NHS and they were pretty unhappy with how Labour handled it but still thought things were better than under the tories. Many vote lib dem but at a push would vote labour. Hell would freeze over before they voted Tory. As I said, lesser of two evils.

I get people not wanting to vote labour, it's the switching to conservative, especially the current bunch, that I don't get.

The NHS is not some organised religion that we can't criticise. The people who work for it are not high priests and angels.
I want a free at the point of use service based on need. But I will not be blackmailed into voting Labour as the guardians of the sacred flame ffs.

Bolshy spot on 🙌🏻

Sadly our Labour MP has upset a lot of Labour voter who might have been prepared to grin and bear it with a supportive vote. He had taken an unpopular stance on a local issue. It should be a strong seat but a Labour insider in a neighbouring constituency has told me they are worried it's going to go.

I have been a nurse in the nhs for 8 years. Prior to that I was a student nurse for 3 years. I have 11 years of experience of the nhs.

Things are getting worse and worse and worse. If you vote Tory you're signing away the NHS - I hope you all have private health insurance as a back up!

I don't care if you don't like Jeremy Corbyn. What's more important, liking the PM or having accessible free and top class health care for yourselves and your families?

If you're undecided as to who to vote for then this is pretty handy uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz

It's your vote, your choice. However I just plead with you to put party politics to one side and please please vote with the NHS in mind. The NHS is one of our most precious resources and is one of the best healthcare systems in the world (despite often biased negative news stories that try to convince otherwise). The NHS is amazing and would be absolutely destroyed by privatisation, just take a look at the disastrous healthcare/insurance system in the USA where it would cost you $10k to have a bog standard vaginal birth for eg (and even more should interventions be necessary). Or if you have pre existing condition (ranging from angina to Alzheimer's) you won't be able to have any insurance (if trumps new proposed medical bill goes through...). Let's not have that disaster here!

Labour as a party are disunited in many ways - but individual Labour MPs in parliament can still oppose and challenge, and that, if you don't want a Tory govt who can do whatever they like whenever they like, is what you vote for.

Same goes for other parties, of course.

Come on, op? Are we all not worth engaging with because we don't share your world view. Or are you leaving it to the grown ups to argue for Labour? Welcome to democracy. Tough, isn't it.

Bolshy as I said in my post, I'm not a tory, and have no idea how if at all the tory's could fix the nhs, thanks.

When you look at the figures, I think those dodgy FPI deals have made it unsalvageable, long term, by any party.

Funnily enough this doesn't make me want to vote labour.. it just makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth when I read crap about labour being good for the NHS.

Not voting Tory. May vote LibDem (dislike them a lot but least of the three). Or Green. If they stand in our constituency.
Labour under Corbyn? Never.

Give me a credible alternative then op.
Labour is a disunited mess, Lib Dems totally lack credibility and no Green candidates anywhere near here.

That's how I feel Noble. It's the complete lack of an opposition that scares me about the next 5 years. If the current Cons were even a competent looking bunch of people I might feel less scared but they're awful. I have no faith in their ability to run a country, none whatsoever. It's just all bluster and hubris with few sensible, solid ideas.

Should say that I also can't stand Corbyn but there are other parties! Lib Dems and Greens, for starters.

A vote for Labour/Lib Dems isn't a vote for Corbyn or Farron as Prime Minister, it's a vote against a massive Tory majority

Precisely.