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Politics

Trump vs Clinton Round 3. Probably the biggest debate ever.

983 replies

claig · 16/10/2016 13:57

Oct 20th 2 am UK time.

Last chance for the Establishment to stop the Trump surge in the polls.
World leaders will be watching, Establishments will be tuning in on the edge of their seats in trepidation.

People will be laughing, diving into the popcorn and knocking back the alcohol.

Round 3. Rock'n'roll.

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Thread gallery
12
Gumpendorf · 19/10/2016 13:23

Craig

I'm curious about what would happen to the Trump businesses if DT is elected. Do you think Trump will put his businesses in a blind trust to avoid a conflict of interests? What about his son's involvement?

How can you be sure Trump won't use the presidency to further his own interests and those of his billionaire pals?

claig · 19/10/2016 13:23

The only danger of war with Trump is what he might do to Iran. He talks very tough, but that is what Trump always does, but he flip-flops on that because just a few years ago he was praising Obama and Hillary and Kerry over Iran and now he isn't. No one knows what he will really do, but he may be able to get Iran and Russia to make a deal which brings peace to the whole region.

I think the Saudis will probably be the losers. Isis, who have been funded by some of the Gulf States, will be wiped out and their funders will probably be stopped as well, which will bring peace to the people who have been suffering in that region for so long.

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ZuleikaDobson · 19/10/2016 13:19

Lweji imagining that trump paid people to say they were paid to cause trouble at his rallies is just desperate

Yes, you're right. He won't have had to pay them, they're happy enough to follow his lead and lie without being paid.

MitzyLeFrouf · 19/10/2016 13:14

Ahhh. Nice to see things are business as usual here.........

So comforting in an uncertain world.

claig · 19/10/2016 13:11

'I suppose the longterm covert plan is for open borders USA and EU'

Yes, I think that was their plan, but I think they are now in big trouble as they faced Brexit and populist rebellions like Trump's. Trump said that when he wins, Americans will have 4 or 8 great years as he will be the greatest job creator in US history but after he is gone, the same old bought and paid for politicians would probably come back and carry on as before.

I think that the Russians did once wnat to be part of teh globalists' plan after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They asked to join NATO and they would have possibly even have liked to join the EU etc. But they weren't allowed. Then they were robbed by the "advisers" who taught them how capitalism should be done under Yeltsin and now they are setting up their own BRICS group with China, India, Brazil and South Africa out of the control of the IMF etc.

The difference between the BRICS and the open border plan is that BRICS will allow countries to maninatin their sovereignty and customs, which is why Erdogan of Turkey is looking at the BRICS rather than the EU for the future, because not every country wants to have open borders.

Trump represents the end of the Open Border brigade, because he wants national sovereignty and he respects the sovereignty of other nations too and all he wanst to do is make deals, do business and get on with Putin rather than having a nuclear war with him.

Trump will bring back prosperity and wealth and end the exploitation of workers by what he calls the vessels of the "corrupt global establishment raiding our country".

If Trump wins, the whole world will be able to get along without wars and with mutual respect, deals and cooperation.

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ClaudeBottom · 19/10/2016 13:01

Erm... Syria? Ukraine? just a couple?

As regards Syria, I've always taken the view that Putin is trying to prevent vacuums such as happened post-Hussein and post-Ghadaffi. Sadaam Hussein did not allow discrimination against oher muslim sects, christians or jews. He kept a tight rein, but fundamentalists were itching to execute him and now Iraq is in ruins.

As regards Ukraine, my take on this is the potential membership of the EU by Ukraine, making the territory that EU controls very vast. The EU did prick-tease the Ukraine two years ago because they want open borders and cheap wages. Ukrainians are great, but do you really think that Europe can absorb half of the Ukraine plus other newcomers. Let's be realistic.

ClaudeBottom · 19/10/2016 12:54

Claig - I suppose the longterm covert plan is for open borders USA and EU. I doubt that Putin would want to be part of open borders even though Russia is in Europe. He has enough to contend with ensuring the 6 or so 'stan' states do not fall into jihadism.

claig · 19/10/2016 12:48

Trump is a billionaire, Blair is leader of the Orifice.

Trump is in no one's pocket. Trump is going to kick ass of the corrupt insiders and the "corrupt global establishment" that he says is "raiding" America.

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claig · 19/10/2016 12:46

Sergiy Brin is a Russian born american and is teh cofounder of Google.

As far as I can make out, Arif is a Kazakhstan born American businessman.

Leonard Blavatnik, the richest man in Britain, is a Ukrainian born American businessman educated in Moscow and had been invited to an excluisve "No. 10 party" by the Orifice's Tony Blair.

So what?

"Blair invites billionaires to exclusive No. 10 party"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-440120/Blair-invites-billionaires-exclusive-No-10-party.html

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nauticant · 19/10/2016 12:46

Tony Blair, leader of the Orifice of Tony Blair, has interests with Russia and Ukraine and Kazakhstan etc.

In that case people might be advised not to vote for Tony Blair in the forthcoming US presidential election.

claig · 19/10/2016 12:28

The Time Magazine looks like a lot of nonsense. He has some investors who are Russian-Canadians and a man called Arif from Kazakhstan who is involved in a company called Bayrock. So what? Trump is not in the pocket of Putin as his opponents pretend. Tony Blair, leader of the Orifice of Tony Blair, has interests with Russia and Ukraine and Kazakhstan etc.

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fourmummy · 19/10/2016 12:23

Why are you worried about Putin? Look first at what is before your very eyes:

"President Obama came into office seven years ago pledging to end the wars of his predecessor, George W. Bush. On May 6, with eight months left before he vacates the White House, Mr. Obama passed a somber, little-noticed milestone: He has now been at war longer than Mr. Bush, or any other American president".

Some publications state that while he was reluctant to do so, Hillary was instrumental in provocating conflict (again, and again, and again).

Obama has been at war longer than any other American president

He supports Hillary; Hillary supported him.

Sexism and racism don't scare me. I understand them. I know why we have them, why we haven't got rid of them, whose interests they serve, why they are constructed as inevitable, and how we can get rid of them (and I have written about this in my posts). War scares me.

Lweji · 19/10/2016 12:22

What do you mean by giving Putin "free rein"? Where & how exactly?

Erm... Syria? Ukraine? just a couple?
He's a great guy.

Kaija · 19/10/2016 12:18

And here:

time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/

Kaija · 19/10/2016 12:15

Trump's Russian interests:

ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russian-connections/

ClaudeBottom · 19/10/2016 12:14

What do you mean by giving Putin "free rein"? Where & how exactly?

claig · 19/10/2016 12:13

"Jill Stein: Trump Is Less Dangerous Than Clinton; She Will Start Nuclear War With Russia
...
On the issue of war and nuclear weapons, it is actually Hillary's policies which are much scarier than Donald Trump who does not want to go to war with Russia.

He wants to seek modes of working together, which is the route that we need to follow not to go into confrontation and nuclear war with Russia."

www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/12/jill_stein_hillary_clintons_declared_syria_policy_could_start_a_nuclear_war.html

Trump is independent, no one, no banker or lobbyist, tells him what to do. Trump sad that "Hillary Clinton is the vessel of the corrupt global establishment that is raiding our country".

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claig · 19/10/2016 11:58

'Look at my earlier post about his financial interests abroad'

Yes, I am asking about Russia.

'Also, he hasn't released his tax returns for anyone to check.'

And yet you state that he has interests in Russia.

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Lweji · 19/10/2016 11:57

Look at my earlier post about his financial interests abroad and the link, claig.

Also, he hasn't released his tax returns for anyone to check.

claig · 19/10/2016 11:50

Trump says he has no business interests in Russia. Can you list the business interests in Russia you say he has, Lweij?

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Lweji · 19/10/2016 11:48

is take us to war?

That is a very simplistic view.

The US hasn't been to war since Iraq, although it is militarily involved in some regions.
Unless you're saying they should back out of engaging with ISIS.

Democrats (and Hillary too) in general side towards diplomacy and reducing military engagements.
Trump, on the other hand, and I understand he's not your classical Republican, is prepared to engage, just as long as there is profit to be made (not sure if by the US or himself). He has financial interests in gun manufacturers such as Daewo (and that's just from memory) as well as in oil companies. Direct interests that will line his own pockets, not his foundation.

Hillary got a rep for being a hawk, but it's Trump with the aggressive stances (bar for dictators, funnily enough) and claiming to be able to "sort ISIS" in a week, or that nuclear weapons are to be used.

www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2016/08/12/why-hillary-clinton-wouldnt-be-a-foreign-policy-hawk-as-president/

"But while there is no doubt that Clinton has often supported the use of force, she just as frequently supported diplomacy and negotiations as the nation’s first line of defense."
And
"she has always reserved her greatest passion and vision for domestic issues"

If anyone will take the US to war (one like Iraq or Vietnam) is more likely to be Trump. Impulsive, reckless, big mouth, and little understanding of foreign issues.

fourmummy · 19/10/2016 11:23

Do you tolerate someone who is prepared to give Putin free rein because they have financial interests in Russia?

Will this take us to war?

Lweji · 19/10/2016 11:13

Claude, did you read my post with all the business interests Trump has in all those countries?

ClaudeBottom · 19/10/2016 11:10

Do you tolerate someone who is prepared to give Putin free rein because they have financial interests in Russia?

No. The leader of his/her country should put the interests of that country first. Putin is looking after his, but USA is selling theirs out to the ME. Did you hear de Niro trashing Trump? Could that be something to do with the fact that he's got a business taking off in one the ME countries (Dubai I think) - a leisure resort or some such?

ClaudeBottom · 19/10/2016 11:07

If all of those thousands of people in GB who have private health insurance but could no longer sustain it were to come back to the NHS, that would cause a major crisis within weeks.