Trump vs Clinton Round 3. Probably the biggest debate ever.

He was more subdued than usual, probably the stress and danger of what he is doing

We will never know, but Trump may well have received death threats to himself and family. And the realisation that if he does win, then he will be a marked man.

I believe Trump has enough commonsense not to try to overturn abortion rights. It would be his undoing, and anyway Senate will not allow it. He understands that the fallout from criminalising abortion for non-medical reasons would make USA look like 1950s Ireland.

Late abortion (third trimester) is another matter.

Anyone remember that case here about 6 yrs ago in which a married woman was carrying healthy twins. She wanted and got a selective reduction because she did not want twins. It was more than half-way thru her pregnancy I believe. I wonder how this has impacted on the surviving twin and whether he has an emotional memory of a sibling?

Of course Trump will overturn abortion rights. When he fulfils his intention of appointing pro-life judges and they overturn Roe v Wade, that will be the inevitable effect. Anyone who suggests that is not a direct result of electing Trump is deceiving themselves.

all the money spent on 'sustainability' and decarbonisation hasn't been spent on for eg cleaning up all the litter in the oceans

I agree. The quality of life for many sea creatures must be appalling. The oceans are dirty and very crowded with junk. And the endless cacophony of increased shipping traffic must also be very stressful.

I really really dislike Clinton as I've said several times before on this thread. I just dislike her less than I do Trump

Why do you have feelings towards either of them? We will never know them personally, so it's their policies and the direction in which they want USA to go which are the critical factors, surely? I have no feelings towards any candidate. If the reason why Trump is standing for election is truthful - which is to nip in the bud the corporate globalist elites - then that is a very good mission. If he does that, the globalists will regroup and try again some years down the line, but at least a public figure is speaking about who is REALLY running the politicians.

ITrump will not overturn abortion rights"

Why do you say that?

Speaking of paid propagandists, there were about 3 on the pre-Brexit thread. They were online virtually all day and evening; one claimed to be a lawyer working somewhere in Europe but amazingly found time to tap away on MN. They've gone from MN now.

Trump will not overturn abortion rights. Though he may overturn very late abortion (say 8 months) for non-medical reasons.

Hilllllary said in her speech that there were XX millions of "undocumented" migrants in the US but that they were contributing by paying their taxes. This does not compute for me ........

A little good news here:

www.politico.com/story/2016/10/early-voting-women-battleground-states-230176

"Trump at least will 'do no harm' so long as abortion rights aren't diminished."

Are you kidding me? He has explicitly stated that he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and will appoint pro choice justices to ensure that happens!

BTW, whether WW is someone's lackey or not, I've given up reading her posts.

Whereas I'll still read yours, claig - for the entertainment value, if nothing else!

Anyone who supports Trump is an arsehole. Regardless of ethnicity.

At last, a comment on MN I can agree with 100% - wholeheartedly - in spades, in fact!!

TBH, I would be inclined to double down on that statement! Which leads me to conclude that 'arseholes' doesn't quite fit the bill. (So to speak! )

Without wishing to be rude, I'd like to suggest 'morons'? Perhaps 'Mindless morons?'

Hmm...still doesn't quite cover it. [thinks]

Just had a look around the web - and found these insults for Trump. Guess they also apply to his supporters, also.

Gobshite!

Witless fucking knobsplat!

Weaselheaded fucknugget!

Bloviating fleshbag!

Toupeéd fucknugget!

Ferret-wearing shitgibbon!

Some of these are worthy of Mumsnet, don't you think?

Finally, here are ten facts Trump supporters are too stupid to realise.

(Thanks, BR, for the inspiration! )

(Bit late to the party, but...)

I'll bet Jesse Jackson isn't endorsing Trump now!

claig, wondered where you'd got to.

May I draw your attention to a line from your OP:

People will be laughing, diving into the popcorn and knocking back the alcohol.

You were right - but not in the way you intended.

I'll raise a glass to Hillary after this is all over, though, not before!

Excellent (if depressing) stuff from Jonathan Freedland today on misogyny in the US election and the degradation of US public discourse:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/21/donald-trump-rolled-back-gains-american-women-torrent-misogyny?CMP=sharebtnn_tw

Trump at least will 'do no harm' so long as abortion rights aren't diminished.

He'd happily reduce them.
And a sexual abuser will do no harm? Really? Just his attitude is harmful

Interesting stuff here on how Putin's troll army have turned their attention to support of Trump:

"I created this list of Russian trolls when I was researching. And I check on it once in a while, still. And a lot of them have turned into conservative accounts, like fake conservatives. I don't know what's going on, but they're all tweeting about Donald Trump and stuff," he said."
...

"From his interviews with former trolls employed by Russia, Chen gathered that the point of their jobs "was to weave propaganda seamlessly into what appeared to be the nonpolitical musings of an everyday person."

"Russia's information war might be thought of as the biggest trolling operation in history," Chen wrote. "And its target is nothing less than the utility of the Internet as a democratic space.""
uk.businessinsider.com/russia-internet-trolls-and-donald-trump-2016-7

But Trump will diminish abortion rights: he has said he will appoint anti-choice judges who will overturn Roe v Wade. And I really don't see how you can suggest he will do no harm given his bigoted views, lack of credible policies, attitude to minorities, and his views on Putin and Russia.

I don't think I do particularly like Clinton, WW, but she is obviously a better option than Trump, and I'm hopeful that women's rights will get more of a look-in under her presidency.

What is it about Trump that has ameliorated your view of him? Particularly given what has come out about his views on his entitlement to use his position to abuse women?

Clinton talks about women's right but she doesn't mean it. She doesn't care. That IS merely a campaign platform. Trump at least will 'do no harm' so long as abortion rights aren't diminished.

See I'm not with you on the green stuff but in my defence I feel irritated that all the money spent on 'sustainability' and decarbonisation hasn't been spent on for eg cleaning up all the litter in the oceans and providing clean free running water for everyone in the world. So I'm not entirely beyond redemption!

thank you :) and I agree with you :)

Kit I hope you feel better soon. You confirm a sense I have that most people want the same good things for everyone but see different ways to get there.