Excited about the Labour leadership announcement

According to Peter Waugh, Corbyn's interview on r4 was pre-recorded as Corbyn isn't 'a morning person'.....

Thanks, Rabbits, interesting.

In a similar vein, did you see the guardian article by hirsch, the man behind some of the living wage research saying the policy needed much more thought?

Yes, maybe about a new party. Tho Corbyn seems more interested in STW and so on than slogging on to protect workers' rights.

I will stop now, and sorry for the length of this but this was written a year ago just before JC became leader, and seems so prescient, so a few quotes:

"The fact is, this leadership election could end up enabling a de facto right-wing one-party state."
and
"Incredulous hacks, digging not-very-deep, have uncovered a seam of words and deeds so appallingly and astonishingly ill-judged, they cannot believe their luck. Do not doubt that there will be a whole lot more of this. "
and
"Corbyn seems to think that anti-imperialism is a simple thing: you just seek out some underdogs and slap them on the back. Never mind who or what they are; never mind the dungeons dark and gallows grim these “friends” provide for the secular Left, wherever they find them"

....but you need a moderate candidate to get more people joining. And this seems increasingly unlikely to happen! Bit of a catch 22. (Ironically, Ed M was widely lauded for changing the leadership election rules, if I remember correctly.....)

I think we have to stay

The infighting isn't going to stop and we need more people joining that will support a moderate candidate

Classic!

But yes. I would like to vote for a properly pro-Europe party that has a chance of winning (some) power and I suspect there are millions like me. Just read Tom Watson's speech - wow. Yes, Piglet, me too. But I worry that by staying I (and the other 192k or whatever) are giving the PLP hope and delaying a split if that is what is ahead. And I cannot see me lifting a campaigning finger as I feel ashamed of my party.

Lalsy. Interesting article. Makes you wonder whether or not the two party system is defunct, though, even under FPTP. Maybe you end up with a Socialist party (under Corbyn), a Social Democratic Party (the more centrist Labour supporters and many of the Lib Dems), a (weaker) Conservative party and a (stronger) UKIP. You then end up with a coalition government most of the time.

Sorry to bang on back to it - but note Chuka last night?

Evan D: are you a Socialist?
Chuka: I'm a Social Democrat
Evan D: But are you a Socialist?
Chuka: I don't think labels are helpful. I'm a Democratic Socialist....

My DH has left the party. I am hanging on, just.

Hearing Tom today has given me some hope.

waitingfortax.com/2016/09/22/a-footnote/

is interesting I think and has made me wobble about staying in the party (to bring the conversation back to me ).

Completely. Someone lower down this thread said I don't want ex-tories in the party and loads of people on social media have been reacting to people saying they are leaving Labour by saying good riddance, go and join the tories (but more rudely). It is bizarre, like a self-destructive parody. If it looks vaguely OK and competent to the outside world, it is a betrayal and Blairite plot.

It seems to me they don't get that what they need is a mandate from the electorate, of which the membership is not remotely representative!

Very true.

For some it seems the electorate are an inconvenience.

It seems they don't get that he has a mandate from the membership

It seems to me they don't get that what they need is a mandate from the electorate, of which the membership is not remotely representative!

It would seem Corbyn supporters are trying to get rid of Tom Watson.

It seems they don't get that he has a mandate from the membership even though they bang on about it enough with Corbyn.

I agree Lalsy

Have seen Ruth D standing up for Labour women on twitter (as they do for tory women) over abuse and trolling.

Have skim read the article. Much as it pains me to admit, she makes a good point about the regressive nature of LP politics.

I am no tory either but she rocks from what I have seen. She was brilliant on Remain debate and scary!. Wish we could send her to Brussels. She is now pitching for Lab voters in Scotland .

I agree about the abuse - and I think it has a particularly silencing effect on women which makes me hopping, hopping, mad. I so admire those who keep going.

I wholeheartedly agree there is nothing funny about what's going on in the LP.

Going to have a look for that Ruth Davidson article. I'm not and never will be a Tory but I have lot of time for her & am interested to read her opinion.

i read the ruth davidson article too, at least Kezia Dugdale got on the NEC, glad that went against JC. Maybe there is some eventual hope things may turn around.

nothing that is happening in the Labour Party is a joke at the moment

I just can not get my head around an MP having to have police protection as they are under threat from the party leaders supporters and I am noticing MP's (not just labour) are less outspoken against Corbyn they are being stifled because they don't want the abuse that now comes hand in hand with daring to be critical of Corbyn

That's Labour Party politics in 2016 it's shameful

They are not Corbyn's opponents. They are not defined by that, no-one is. They are not a monolithic mass.

Agree about Dan Jarvis. And think Clive Lewis may have legs, now JC control and command no longer trust him. Two ex-forces bods from very different wings of the party, working together, could help Labour rebuild trust on defence and security, maybe? Where are all the women though, it is so depressing - I read Ruth Davidson's article in the Telegraph, she is right, it is embarrassing. Agree about Heidi Alexander and there are lots of great but inexperienced ones. By the time Labour is in power, I am worried there will be no women with experience left.

And the 172 are not scary, they are a joke.

In your opinion....

And the 172 are not scary, they are a joke.

That's OK, but I like it. Just like the term "the Corbynistas", the anti Corbyn 172 is shorthand for Corbyn's opponents. If you don't like it, don't use it.