Excited about the Labour leadership announcement

"Owen Smith less popular in Wales than Jeremy Corbyn, as Tories cut Labour's lead

Most Welsh voters who had a preference said they would have backed Jeremy Corbyn for Labour leader, not Pontypridd MP Owen Smith"

www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-09-23/owen-smith-less-popular-in-wales-than-jeremy-corbyn-as-tories-cut-labours-lead/

"Labour MPs are finally accepting the terrifying victory of Jeremy Corbyn's mass movement

At lunchtime on Saturday, most Labour MPs will be sinking to a new depth of despair. The party will announce the results of a leadership challenge that was intended to either weaken or depose Jeremy Corbyn but will instead make him stronger than ever.

The race has been decided by a Labour Party now 70 per cent composed of people who signed up after last year’s general election, delighted with the direction of the Corbyn project and convinced that he’s going to win.

We have just witnessed something unprecedented in Western democracy: the takeover not just of a party’s leadership, but of its membership."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/22/labour-mps-are-finally-accepting-the-terrifying-victory-of-jerem/

Historic is an understatement. We are witnessing the most monumental event in British politics for decades and decades - ordinary people have defeated the great and the good, the BBC, the media, the metropolitan elite and all their mates. Never has this ever been done before and they are clueless about what to do to reverse it. Putting David Miliband on the BBC is all they can think of and that is just a total joke.

We are in a new world, a post-Brexit people's world and they don't know what to do to wrest control back from the people.

I'm a Conservative and I suppose it's not surprising that I simply cannot understand his appeal. What I understand even less is why people are still slavishly supporting him despite the long list in *EnthusiasmDisturbed's 10:02:03 post. Any one of those would be sufficient for me never to vote for someone. Add on his pathetic MN webchat earlier this week and I'm even more confused.

The man has no loyalty to his country or even his own political party, having voted against it many times. It seems he is quite content to see the Party implode and fracture to satisfy his own ego.

His supporters must know that Labour will never win an Election with him as leader, I am personally delighted to see Conservative governments stretching out in the future from 2020 and beyond - I can only assume for some bizarre reason they are too.

i think it'll be 65/35 in favour of Corbyn. And this is not going to go away.

There'll be challenge after challenge after challenge. Why don't the trots set up their own party and take him with them? And all his nasty friends...

David Miliband is not as stupid as he looks. He is in a charidee role and is probably not going to risk it by taking on the Corbynistas (who are competent, cheerful, well-organised and enthusiastic) for the sake of the 172 because he possibly thinks that John McDonnell has assessed the 172 accurately

"John McDonnell claims branding 'conniving' Labour MPs 'f*ing useless' was just 'stand-up comedy'"

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-mcdonnell-claims-branding-conniving-8409718

Miliband has probably figured that if the 172 are the best and the brightest that the Establishment have got, then he is better off "outta here".

Enthusiasm, exactly. I suppose those are the reasons why I am uncomfortable in the party if he wins again. I couldn't possibly defend stop the war's calls for action against British troops and I don't see how anyone who has can hope to be in charge of the Forces. But maybe ou are right - we should stay and hope things change.

No, not excited at all. Lifelong Labour voter here. Never felt more disenfranchised from the party - not a fan of Owen Smith either.

All the right on folks whipping themselves in a frenzy of excitement over his great victory will no doubt be thrilled to bits on Saturday. So will the Tories as they'll be handed another ten years in power to asset strip the country. Hooray.

'David Milliband could he be making a comeback he has been more viable in the press in this last week than he has for a long time'

I think that is the 172's next move. He has penned an article full of the usual Blairite spin for the New Statesman, but he knows, as do the 172, that he doesn't stand a chance against the Corbynistas as of now.

The 172 threw Owen Smith into the lion's den to see how he would cope and to see what the lie of the land was like. Smith valiantly used the only weapon he has got against Corbyn - banter - and he outbantered Bernard Manning, but Corbyn chewed him up and spat him out and the 172 are distraught.

The 172 can't risk the pompous, lecturing, hectoring David Miliband who is more Blairite than Blair himself and who has been trained in the art of hand gestures and pregnant pauses and has surpassed his master, Blair, at the art of spin because Miliband is their last hope and they can't send him over the top too soon or Corbyn will end their dreams forever. They are hoping that the BBC will run a negative campaign for a few years against Corbyn and that Miliband will be able to use that cover to launch an assault on the leadership, but they don't understand the people and their revulsion for spin and haughty lecturing by the metropolitan elite and their mates.

There is no way back for them, they have to face reality. It's Corbyn or bust.

John Mann is the only Labour MP who stands a chance against Corbyn and whom the people would like and warm to, but the Establishment don't like Mann because he is not a Blairite.

"Outspoken MP claimed he 'laughed' when Smith launched his leader bid
And he claimed the campaign against Corbyn hit too many 'bum notes'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801910/Why-support-Owen-Smith-not-Jeremy-Corbyn-Doomed-Labour-contender-slammed-MP-laughable-grab-leadership.html

David Milliband could he be making a comeback he has been more viable in the press in this last week than he has for a long time

It would be pointless putting a candidate that would have broad appeal like DM against Corbyn at the moment but maybe in two years

We mustn't give up people will tire of Cornyn many now realise they made a mistake voting for him the cracks are starting to show

Jeremy will definitely have won. But Labour will never get into power with him as leader. So he can have all the brilliant ideas in the world but it will make no difference. To win you have to appeal to the middle ground and he does not. Bring back David Milliband!

The press hasn't even really started on Corbyn come a general election they will absolutely destroy him and his pr's version of him being a man of principle becomes he isn't

His show of solidarity to IRA terrorists (never part of the peace process)

His friends Hamas and Hezbollah

His sharing platforms with terrorist representatives and journalists that openly make antisemitic comments

His involvement with the Stop The War Coalition and their calling on jihadists to kill British troops in Iraq

His inviting Gerry Adams to the HOP two weeks after the direct attack on our democracy the Brighton bombing

He won't be able to claim smear campaigns as they are not and he will have to answer to his actions or ignore them either way he can't hide from them

And if anyone things that will not impact labours chances of winning an election is foolish he simply won't win

'priceless look on the faces of the 172'

Although make sure you have eaten your breakfast first because those faces are reported to have caused incidences of "chucking up" to those who are not accustomed to such sights.

Ah, Thanks Claig
I have been following (and enjoying!) your posts on the American election so was interested to hear your 'take' on this too.

Bated breath till then, then

'So, do we know who 'won' yet???'

Saturday 11 am

Worth tuning in if nothing else but for the priceless look on the faces of the 172.

So, do we know who 'won' yet???

If labour are to win the they need to reach out to people like me who voted Tory last time. I fear that British politics is going to the right of Atila the Hun as there is no credible opposition. The poor is faced with both the NHS and the education system being dismantled. There is no electoral mandate for Grammar schools yet labour are not challenging it.

I've been member of the Labour Party since I was old enough to join, yet I've never felt as disengaged with the party. I don't want either of them as leader. I probably will resign.

Well, I have read the article and said below I though it was overly optimistic and no that is not what it means.

Nope, that's not why. I didn't vote for Corbyn last time round because I thought he was an ineffective leader, a gesture politician and lacked integrity on many issues. That was after reading many of his articles and watching his speeches - I did my research.There are lots of people who think like this as the polls consistently show.

I am off now as this is pointless. I hope Corbyn supporters are right. otherwise the poor and vulnerable of this country have been utterly betrayed by those who should be fighting for them. I think they have been.

Here is Owen Jones in the Guardian

"Voters may back Corbyn’s policies. But they won’t accept a freakshow"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/22/voters-back-corbyn-policies-but-wont-accept-freakshow

I haven't read the article but I presume that "freakshow" is an oblique reference to some of the leading members of the 172.

The reason that a lot of people have a negative image of Corbyn is due to the relentless media and 172 barrage against him for months. That will evaporate if Corbyn has the leadership skills to defeat the 172 and put them back in their box. I am not sure he has got the ability or strength to do that in which case they will continue to underine him and he won't get anywhere.

Corbyn is representative of the huge shift in public opinion across the entire Western world against the failed consensus of the insiders. The people have defeated them all and they are never coming back again as they were before. It's over for them despite the BBC's attempts to resurrect the whole lot of them.

"New Times: Gary Gerstle on Corbyn, Sanders and the populist surge

The mustering of Bernie’s and Donald’s armies, along with the Brexit vote, may signify the end of the neoliberal world order which has ruled since the 1980s. So what next?"

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2016/09/new-times-gary-gerstle-corbyn-sanders-and-populist-surge

The old guard, the charidee types.are still being rolled out to stop the inevitable but their time is over, their failure and unpopularity all too evident

"New Times: David Miliband on why the left needs to move forward, not back
...
This year’s leadership election has spent a lot of time debating how to “bring back” various lost icons, such as nationalised railways, rather than focusing on new ideas for the future.
...
But the electorate can see through the domestic policy, too. Nationalisation cannot be the answer to everything; anti-austerity speeches cannot explain everything; cor­porate taxation cannot pay for everything. It doesn’t add up. It wouldn’t work. People are not stupid."

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/new-times-david-miliband-why-left-needs-move-forward-not-back

These failed politicians want to turn back the clock and oppose the people's choice of Brexit, their mantra is that "it is not affordable" for Corbyn to do what he wants and they are against popular policies like rail nationalisation, which even most Tory voters are in favour of.

These failed politicians are the status quo contingent, the BBC and Establishment forces trying to hold back the wave of the people in the New Times that have rocked their entire world.

They are the past, the Corbynistas are the future. Ordinary people organising to end the status quo of failure.

yep. Read Anna turley (?) on door knocking in Sheffield. Where we just lost an election weeks after a massive rally. Corbyn was a massive problem on the doorsteps. but there is not much point in discussing with someone who just repeats that people will vote for him. If anyone actually knows of a plan to win seats or provide effective opposition (both of which require leadership - I agree that some not all Corbyn supporters don't think that is an important quality but many others do as the polls show) I really would like to hear it!

news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/22/newsid_2506000/2506715.stm

I remember the winter of discontent in 1979. My poor father had to walk 5 miles in the snow because of train strikes. I was 3 or 4 at the time. For some weird reason I remember my parents lighting candles and a fire in the grate, but I have no idea what caused the power cut.

My fear is that if Jermany gets back into power the bins won't get collected.

Not excited at all, quite the opposite. I've been a Labour supporter and voter all my life but I will be cancelling my membership if he gets in again tomorrow. He is ineffectual, presents poorly in the media (like a prickly, waspish, holier-than-thou sociology teacher on a good day) and has failed dismally in holding the Tories to task for the many appalling things they have done recently and are continuing to do. I don't give a flying fuck if loads of new people have joined the Party because they hero-worship this loser, it doesn't translate into votes in key marginals so it means nothing except endless Tory rule.

Yes but this was a whole carriage of people, organised from the start, and they served us free drinks too! The last two times this happened (all in September) we had to fight for space as all reservations were just removed. I'm being light-hearted now but the Ed Miliband disaster is still weighing heavily ...

longtime member- wasn't allowed to cast my vote for Smith.

Genuinely devastated at what you idiot Corbynista's have done to the people who really need a Labour government. And I blame you, not the hundred odd who have tried and failed to work with him.

How dare you do this. How dare you, one can only assume you do no door knocking and have not had any conversations with the people you need to vote for us to get you into power? I can't defend that man on a doorstep, so I shan't. Good luck with it- there are millions of people that need you to succeed in this project.

Claig, why is it that the UKIP voters who no longer want to vote UKIP are switching to the Tories? Maybe it's all the propaganda - in which case Corbyn is losing the propaganda war, and will not get elected at the next GE. Maybe it's the lack of a public platform - but Corbyn has never been as high profile as he has been the last few weeks and Labour poll figures are terrible.

I have no doubt that Corbyn is very popular with certain sections of the population. But he is not popular among a chunk of Labour voters and is very unpopular with most non-Labour voters. England is a right-of-centre country and Labour has rarely held power in the UK on a socialist platform. With the SNP holding sway in Scotland and the Unions no longer able to summon up huge swathes of voters the numbers just don't add up.

What I think you may also not be seeing is that the fervour of Corbynistas like yourself is actually putting off swing voters. Its a little worrying, tbh, this uncritical hero-worship of a man who seems very normal to the rest of us. It comes across a lot like a cult, and political cults are never a good thing.