Media coverage deliberately biased against Corbyn, British public believes

'Given that you think that there would be millions of members, all wanting to take part in the participatory politics on offer,'

But 33.5 million people participated in the Referendum and there was no public disorder. Labour members are probably more reasonable than memers of some other parties.

'And, it's not the Labour Party I am a member of;'

Sorry, I thought you were Labour.

'He's got plenty to throw.'

But he is not stupid. Why waste it?

'if the Labour Party introduced participatory politics - some voters would not fully understand the process and be left feeling angry and disillusioned? '

Not if it was a democratic vote where every vote counted and the party was bound by the vote. It is prettty simple and clear and I think that Labour members would understand it. They would only feel let down if Owen Smith decided he knew better than them and insisted on reholding the vote until they voted for what he wanted.

'is it possible that the anger felt by some could result in public disorder? '

I don't think Labour members are violent people. I think they would accept the result of a democratic vote; they are not like Owen Smith.

'And, do you think the risk of public disorder is worth it, so that the public have the opportunity to be more involved in political decision making?'

I may be judging this wrongly as you know more aout Labour members than I do, but I don't believe there would be any public disorder if members were allowed to participate in decisin making.

'How indeed. I'm sure we are about to find out.'

It won't happen. Arron Banks would just be throwing money away. Theresa May will probably sweep up most of the UKIP vote, particularly if Labour want to hold another referendum and keep us in the EU.

With Farage gone, UKIP is practically finished. I will probably switch back to the Conservatives. How can a brand new party without Farage match what UKIP did?

Yes, you're right, they are angry and are still bringing it up two months later. Owen Smith is right, they feel deceived and wish they could vote again in another Referendum and this time they would vote Remain and they back Owen Smith's attempt to bring that about which is why Owen Smith was booed at a Labour hustings in Gateshead when he brought it up and why an audience member in the Question Time debate said that Owen Smith was "insulting the intelligence of Leave voters".

Then I would have judged it wrongly.

'How is that different from saying that you think some of "the people" are exaggerating, and that they don't really mean what they say? '

Because I am not talking about their understanding or intelligence, I think they are mainly venting which is what everybody does.

I think I have quoted it twice on this thread. It is a quote from a paper on Corbyn's statement about the "magic circle" and I think it is relevant to Corbyn's wish to spread power and democracy to the people and take it away from the "magic circle" which is why I quoted it in the context of members voting for the Shadow Cabinet.

This was in the Question Time debate

"An audience member says people seem to want “nationalism”. Is Labour going to go that way, or stick to its values?

Smith says he thinks people want investment - and the areas that have gone towards Ukip have been starved of investment. If there’s more investment, they’ll come back.

The audience member suggests Smith is “insulting the intelligence” of the people who voted Leave."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/question-time-labour-hustings-recap-8796106

Smith has done nothing but insult the intelligence of 17.5 million who voted Leave by suggesting that we are too stupid to understand what the vote was about and that he can explain it to us, and he has done nothing but insult the intelligence of Labour voters with his "I blame Jeremy" over Brexit and everything else.

Smith insults just about everybody with his "banter" and then insults the entire country by suggesting he may try to stay in the EU after we had a democratic vote and he lost.

'You don't have a very high opinion of "the public", do you?'

I do which is why I believe in referendums so that we can all have a say, unlike the political class.

'It does somewhat undermine your position if you only believe some of the people, some of the time. '

A lot of what people say is "banter", they don't really mean a lot of it. People like to moan about the government and use a Catherine Tate nan line "f**ing liberty" etc but they aren't really angry about it most of the time.

'Anyway, as you are not willing to accept that some of "the public" didn't really understand the purpose of the referendum'

Some may not have but my guess is it was very few because I don't believe the people are as stupid as Owen Smith makes out.

' you certainly won't accept that some of "the public" won't understand the limitations of the opportunity to vote on policy'

No because I thinnk the people are smarter than that and than Owen Smith. I think these arguments are used by the politicak class in order to shut people out of decision making and participating because people like Owen Smith think they know better than the people and think that the people are not capable of understanding what the referendum vote was all about.

'although there is a part of me that really hopes that in future years, members will be able to vote for the shadow cabinet. I am confident that we'd see more women represented if that was the case.'

Yes that would be good and I think it will only come about via Corbyn because he is not fixated on power and control and wants to spread power to the people. That is why he called the "magic circle" out and sent a shiver up their spine.

"Corbyn calls for Westminster 'magic circle' to be broken

The "magic circle" of Westminster needs to be broken and the views of "ordinary people" heard, Jeremy Corbyn has said in the final leadership rally before the ballot papers are sent out.
...

The crowd cheered as he said workers in factories, call centres and local authorities had "ideas" on how to change the economy, but were "frustrated that nobody is listening to them".



The principle of democracy has to be ground up.

It is about breaking open this magical circle of Westminster, some of our great universities, Whitehall and the boardrooms who try to control thinking, control ideas and control the way policy is developed.

• Jeremy Corbyn"

'Are all those people lying? '

I think they are exaggerating because I think everybody knew that there would not be £350 million per week for the NHS (despite what Owen Smith says) and everybody knew it would take a long time before we left. What is important is that we are leaving, the rest is detail that will take a long time to work out. Most people have moved on from Brexit apart from Owen Smith.

'So you think that no one is angry about being deceived'

I think Owen Smith is angry that he lost. All this stuff about "eing deceived" is 172 spin doctor stuff that Owen spouts. Us Leavers are supposedly angry because we feel deceived that there won't be £350 million going to the NHS per week which was promised by an assortment of politicians who were not in power, couldn't promise anything and whom the entire Establishment and all its mates were against.

It's just Owen Smith "banter", it's not true.