What happens if Trump wins?

I'm coming back over to this thread, where it is easier to have a conversation. Trump seems to have gone crackers on Twitter this morning. Well, more accurately, he's back to his old self.

Why is it that Claig's name immediately ensures that I am so very tired that I know longer wish to engage in the debate?

We have no choice. If he is elected we have to respect the American people and do our best to get on with him.

After bulldozing planning permission Trump tore up a fence with the neighbours at one of his Scottish golf courses. His workers then erected a wall (new fence) & billed the neighbours. When he billed the neighbours they refused to pay. Last time Trump came to Scotland he was greeted with Mexican flags.

Oh Dowser, it's something, isn't it? I'd like to have been a fly on the wall during that meeting! Even after his 'visit' with the President of Mexico he's still insisting that they will build it AND pay for it.

Well, I can see it if it's to stem the tide of those of us trying to flee the US to Mexico if he wins. Maybe that's why he's so sure they'll pay for it.

You guys already have Hadrian's wall, so you're all good.

A wall between USA and Mexico?
Whatever next?
Northumberland and Scotland?
The two Ireland's
Wales and England?

Shakes head in disbelief

Apparently they even influenced the news media to not cover Sanders' campaign, resulting in poor turnout of voters on his behalf.

I'm sorry but were you listening to the same news I was. Sanders was everywhere. He came damned close for a man who is way left of centre -which translates as unelectable in the US - and who has never been a member of the Democratic party until this election run - and has since left the party.

mumndad37 do you seriously believe the republican party would have let Trump be their nominee if they could possibly have rigged it? He is their death knell, win or lose.

I do not see how anyone could live here and have blind faith that democracy is alive and well in the USA. And I haven't even begun to address the subject of the control lobbyists and wealthy corporations have of lawmakers and parties. Definitely rigged. I read and listen to a number of different sources, so not just one viewpoint here.....

no I don't have blind faith but still a belief in the integrity of the democratic system in action in the USA. The recent decision about voting id laws, the triumph of bernie sanders small donors over big corporate donations, the way local, city, state government works in the US ... Those of us who have only lived in democracies have no idea what it is actually like to live in a non-democratic system.

Democracy is never a finished thing. It is an act in progress over and over. the US is the same as many democracies the world over ... figuring it out, playing whack-a-mole with anti democratic practices. I still have faith in the overall system which is alive and well and operating just fine in the US - with a lot of people making sure it does.

You are all right, and I will stop with generalisations - please accept my apology.
My example was from a long time ago, and I did not quote any examples of the many many very well informed, very well read, very well travelled Americans I have also come across.
I just wanted to make the point that I have had conversations and come across situations in the States (in the last 5 years) that I have never come up against in other countries.

Again, enough digression

I think the US of A as a concept and its constitution is marvellous. No ifs or buts.
And I don't hold a nation state responsible for the actions or deeds or every speeches of individuals. Therefore I live in hope that Trump is a blip.

OK - I am American. I do see lots of media reporting on the Democratic National Committee maneuvering so that Clinton would be the nominee and not Bernie Sanders. A number of high officials in the DNC have lost their positions/resigned over this. Apparently they even influenced the news media to not cover Sanders' campaign, resulting in poor turnout of voters on his behalf.

With the Republican party, I see plenty of reporting on the subject of voter repression, especially in poor communities/black neighborhoods.

I do not see how anyone could live here and have blind faith that democracy is alive and well in the USA. And I haven't even begun to address the subject of the control lobbyists and wealthy corporations have of lawmakers and parties. Definitely rigged. I read and listen to a number of different sources, so not just one viewpoint here.....

Wow, really??

I'm seeing it all over the place. Mostly on Facebook, in the comments under various news articles.

So why are so many people convinced the polls - the election itself - is rigged? There seems to be zero faith in American democracy by many Americans.

Where do you get that from? Trump?

I haven't heard of anyone who is convinced the polls still less the election is rigged. Start listening to NPR podcasts instead of Daily Mail or similar articles. I don't know one american, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green or Trump supporter - and I do know someone from each party - who thinks the election might be rigged. Most americans I know are completely confident in the integrity of their electoral system - same as in UK.

And every american I know has complete faith in american democracy.

...but in general it is a place where democracy hasn't faltered but has progressed over nearly 250 years.

So why are so many people convinced the polls - the election itself - is rigged? There seems to be zero faith in American democracy by many Americans.

Also, I suspect that privately, Trump thinks Brexit is a bad thing. Publicly, he says the opposite, because it's what his supporters want to hear.

And they either believe everything he says unquestioningly, or as Claig would have us believe - don't believe half of what he says, and are just along for the joy ride.

should read If you were spoken to. Dropped an 'f' there!

Dogwood You're basing your opinion on incidents that happened with a few Americans. In 1985 the population of the US was 240 million. I you were spoken to in that way by even 200 people that's only .00008333% of the population. Hardly a representative sample. So you actually did 'make a sweeping statement' and a generalization.

I lived near Nürnberg for around a year as a young adult (many years ago). There were lovely people, there were some who were horrible. And yes, the 'horrible' ones are the ones that stick out in my mind. I certainly don't judge the entirety of the German population on the people I met when I lived there decades ago. You were also rather young which can colour one's perceptions.

But I digress.

Trump is still a loud mouthed imbecile.

I always get a bit cranky with the general MN view of the States. It doesn't reflect the place I live at all. All of my friends are politically interested, educated, intelligent people. They're also very funny and get irony and sarcasm just as much as the next person.

One of the most intelligent, educated, well read and interesting people I know doesn't have a US passport. Her reasoning is that she doesn't want one until she's fulfilled her dream of going to every US National Park. For her, that's how she spends her holidays. Plus, lots of people only get 20ish days of holiday, so it's easier to spend that within the US than it is heading elsewhere.

I think everywhere can be guilty of being somewhat insular. There is still an Empirical hangover within the UK that it's more important globally than it really is imo. Added to this, a certain amount of anti American snobbiness. The "so many of them don't have a passport" being a case in point, especially when said by people who have only ever used their British passport for 2 weeks holidays in resorts in Tenerife, Zante and, rather ironically, Orlando.

NB I'm talking generally here, not talking about specific posters on this thread.

Pacific you met one set of people - and it sounds like some time ago. they really aren't representative of americans generally. most of us think other countries/cultures are interesting, fascinating (and have great food). You will meet ignorant people everywhere, including the USA but there really isn't a systemic feeling of "number 1 man" in most places - especially the more populated east and west coasts.

People are proud of the republic and the democracy and the constitution. There are huge stains on american history - slavery being the largest one - but in general it is a place where democracy hasn't faltered but has progressed over nearly 250 years. Trump is a blip - not a change in type of government - even if he is elected. UK is similar - hence the strong relationship between the two countries.

Speaking of which, from a purely US point of view Brexit is a disaster because the US relied on the UK to "translate" the EU to them. I heard a senior conservative economist say recently that there isn't a politician/economist/pundit in the US who thinks Brexit is good for the US - other than Trump. Everyone else on both sides of the aisle is absolutely dismayed. But that is probably just an establishment thing :)

Really? Give some illustration that doesn't involve a Trump speech - he really has no credibility in this discussion

'I would have said that feeling of superiority is more likely found in France - and used to certainly be found in the UK. '

I agree with Canyouforgiveher. There is a snobbishness in England and France (the Old World) towards America (the New World) which to some extent stems from the Old World being economically and politically supplanted as the number one power and a jealousy based on that.

The "intellectuals" in the media here think they are more knowledgeable and sophisticated than many Americans when in fact on many political subjects it is Americans who are far better informed - on things like Monsanto and what really goes in in politics.

Here is a Trump explaining why he doesn't like the term "American exceptionalism" which may have come as a surpriser to the interviewer who I think is Pat Robertson

You don't need to leave it to travel widely and experience other cultures - hence many americans not having passports.

Yes, that is true.
And I did not in any way want to come across as making sweeping statements (generalisation are always dangerous and I am sorry about having made some one)
However, nobody of any other nationality has ever reacted with incredulity or hurt when I said (aged 10) that I wanted to return home (you know, where my Mummy and Daddy were) after an extended holiday in the States. Bacause, how could I possibly want to leave The Promised Land? I must be sad to be leaving - well, yes, sad that my holiday was over, I'd had a great time, and sad that I had to go back to school etc, but looking forward to home, and familiarity and, you know, home.
I was also asked whether we had indoor plumbing, whether we had hot water and electricity and whether I came from East or West Germany - 1985, I could only have come from the West, but that had to be explained.
These were college educated, lovely, interested people, living in a college town, working professional jobs. Widely travelled, including Paris, France

Anyhoo, I am really the last person who would want to be disrespectful to the US and its residents and I am simply going by my experiences.

I think the world is currently looking at Brexit Britain thinking we've gone mad, so I don't think we have much to say to the US on populist political support.
Yes to that. That's embarrassing too tbh.

I think the world is currently looking at Brexit Britain thinking we've gone mad, so I don't think we have much to say to the US on populist political support.

It's obviously hard to measure 'class' through blunt demographics, but I'm not sure the middle classes are carrying Trump. Clinton is now ahead with white men with college degrees, traditionally a solid Republican market. The only group Trump leads in is non-college educated white men.

Quite simply, this man is unacceptable. No one can possibly support him and not recognise that this is an endorsement of hate speech in public life. If they are OK with that, it says a lot about them.

There is a certain type of arrogance, for lack of a better word, that is part of the psyche of the country/nation: the whole 'the Best Country In The World' thing, the whole 'Everybody wants to come here', combined with (often) a lack of travel and exposure to other cultures and countries (see the number of people who don't own a passport) makes for some weird opinions and a vague sense of superiority. V strange to witness and hard to tackle IME.

Another american here and to be honest, attitudes like this make me often not bother with threads about americans.

America is a huge country. You don't need to leave it to travel widely and experience other cultures - hence many americans not having passports. You won't see Europe of course but a trip to Europe is out of the budget of most average americans anyway. Although every high school I know offers trips to south american and Europe, even those in poor districts.

I have never yet met an american who was gobsmacked at anyone wanting to live somewhere other than the US. Most of them would say "I'd love to live in Italy/Ireland/London/whatever." That's the americans I meet. The ones you met aren't representative of everyone.

Most americans do not feel superior and ironically enough many of them greatly revere British culture. I would have said that feeling of superiority is more likely found in France - and used to certainly be found in the UK. Trump isn't our finest hour but that doesn't mean that he expresses the opinions of the majority of americans.

I wish there was an American on this thread. There are a few of us on this thread, we're just trying to fly under the radar to avoid the missiles .

I don't think my country is 'better' than any others, and I'm not alone in that. The 1950s attitude is diminishing somewhat and a great number of people believe that we're 'better than some, not as good as others'. As with most things, the vocal 'America, by God!!!!' crowd gets the publicity.

As far as Trump getting elected, remember that the President is not elected by popular vote. He's elected by electoral votes and that it is possible to be elected on an electoral majority whilst actually losing on the popular vote. This is how GW Bush was elected in 2000, he had more electoral votes that Al Gore (who had the popular vote). This is why nominees campaign so hard in some states and little in others. Right now Hillary is ahead in the polls (thank God) but as Yogi Berra said "It ain't over 'til it's over".

It's like living with the Sword of Damocles hanging over our head. I'm usually one that wants to hold back time but roll on November. I've never dreaded an election as I have this one, and I just want it over. Trump is a madman (I'd call him the Antichrist if I was a 'Bible Belt' Christian).

Sorry Pacific I wasn't clear. I meant respect for the American government, not the people.

I know some nice Americans. But they are very sensitive (have to be very careful about what jokes I make etc) and were genuinely shocked when they told me how jealous I must be, and I explained I don't want to live in America. They were gobsmacked. and a little shitty even though I was polite and made it about loving home, not hating their crazy country

I agree. He's almost like a brand, a product to be flogged. America is such a materialistic society that I can see how the very uneducated (some unrelated documentaries that happened to be set in areas of America with statistically low IQ's and have literally never been to school) buy into his crap. I mean, why not? If you had no education, no prospects, and got your world news from FOX; Trump seems like a miracle. He's The American Dream (except daddy's a billionaire) He's smarter and will outfox those cronies up in Washington (how many times did he go bankrupt again? Oh yes, six) He will get rid of them Nasty Brown People because we want our jobs back (Trump hires illegals, outsources his companies, and his business is very tied up in globalism, much to claig's horror) He will destroy ISIS because he is so much smarter (Maybe we'll end up being pulled into yet another war after he decides it's a brilliant idea to bomb an area filled with children or something)

Essentially, he's promising to fix everything. He's shamelessly cashing in on the desperation of the uneducated poor. In a culture where brands matter, Trump is a brand. Clinton is not, because she's actually a politician. As for the educated who support him? The wealthy doesn't surprise me. He'll keep them safe. The middle class ones? They're the ones I think are the core of the bigotry through his campaign. The more uneducated are bigoted because of the media, the middle classes choose to be bigots. They're voting Trump because they're racists. Because they hate women. Because he'll put The White Man back on top again! Was he ever down?

Not only would he not be respected, he creates internal issues for other Nations. Remember that enormous petition to not let him in? If people don't even want him in their country, then the PM will have to both work with a todler who wants to be told how speshul he is every two minutes as well as an angry public.

Let's hope if he wins he isn't stupid enough to do random airstrikes on Syria. The ones that have been carefully planned have done enough damage. If he were stupid enough to engage in a war with another country, I don't think this time Britain and Australia would stand behind America. PM's would be way to hesitant to enrage their voters by making an alliance. If 4 million marched against Iraq, how many do you think would march against Trump?

He's a real politician's nightmare. A idiot with money who people listen to, who thinks he doesn't need advisers/speech writers/the numerous people who come with the gig because He Is Just So Smart