Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

They are doing it out of desperation because the membership isn't hearing them, so now they are giving actual examples in the hope of changing a few members' minds before the leadership vote.

Yep - that makes perfect sense. Also agree that they wouldn't have said anything immediately as they thought he might resign so they wouldn't have to. Especially since a lot of them genuinely seem to like him as a person.

But if their resignations, & the whole orchestrated attempt to destabilise him, had such sound reasoning behind them, I wonder why it has taken so long for these details to come out?"
Yes and they're doing the rounds of the political discussion programmes.

Experience Ted should be expected.

Have you ever resigned from a job, Dudgeon? You don't write a letter saying 'I am resigning because you are all a bunch of cunts and I find you deeply unprofessional'. You say 'regrettably I am tendering my resignation, thank you for the opportunity but I find I haven't been able to carry out my role with as much success and enjoyment as I had hoped'. There is no need to air dirty laundry. That exact damning circumstances were not revealed at that time is entirely consistent with professionalism. Had Corbyn stepped down, as the PLP clearly experience Ted him to, as John Smith said any labour leader who lost the support of his colleagues would, as every other politician ever in similar circumstances has done, his colleagues would never have had to make it clear exactly how and why they cannot work with him. Their hand has been forced because of this strange cult of St Jeremy and his enormous hubris. There is nothing, nothing, psychologically suspicious in resigned colleagues only revealing supporting info now. They are doing it out of desperation because the membership isn't hearing them, so now they are giving actual examples in the hope of changing a few members' minds before the leadership vote.

I think the point is that they did have grievances, at the way they were being forced to work - ie in what sounds like an unprofessional, exclusive and chaotic manner, which did nothing to further Labour's chances of 1) being an effective opposition or 2) winning an election.

The exact machinations of resignations, plots/plans and associated statements aren't really relevant to that point, are they? If they were being well-led nobody (or at least the vast majority) would have wanted to resign in the first place.

Telegraph report on 13th June about planned post-referendum coup

Telegraph report on 25th June about Hilary Benn's "orchestrated mass resignation" plot, before he was sacked

I think at least some of them must have had time to write out resignation statements detailing their grievances!

I have no idea - my guess would be that they didn't have pre-prepared written statements at the time, and it was only later that they decided to document their reasons. Perhaps - being understandably disgruntled at their treatment - they will have now timed them to cause inconvenience to JC. That's just my guess though. What do you think?

I also have no idea whether they had all arranged to resign at the same time - but if they hadn't it seems reasonable to guess that if there were a large group of disgruntled MPs then resignations would snowball once they started.

Nobody will want to be the ones left to defend the leader they have no faith in - who appears to have no respect for them or their opinions - on what they perceive to be a sinking ship.

are you talking about Thangam Debbonaire and Lilian Greenwood? If so, do two make a conspiracy? Are you saying their statements are probably untrue?

No, I'm saying that their statements offer perfectly reasonable grounds for a minister to resign, so I'm wondering why they weren't produced at the time when ministers were resigning at (pre-arranged) regular intervals throughout the day.

Interesting stats on Labour Party membership from Prof Tim Bale:

"They are an unusual set of people - for a start they joined a political party, only about 1 to 2 % of people ever do that"

"They are unusual as well because about three-quarters of them are middle class people, over half of them are graduates, average age is around 51, so they don't really represent the population as a whole."

Bit rich that they keep trotting out the line of 'the Members are the all-important ones - ie the ones who represent the ordinary people of this country unlike those nasty Blairite MPs' - as if they have sole rights to being 'ordinary people'.

they would have appeared much more understandable (& less conspiratorial) if the resigners with these grounds had produced their statements at the time.

Not sure what you mean - are you talking about Thangam Debbonaire and Lilian Greenwood? If so, do two make a conspiracy? Are you saying their statements are probably untrue?

So it sounds like she acted as professionally as she could, until she was so ground down by Team Corbyn's lack of professionalism that she could no longer continue in the job

But all the resignations happened several weeks ago - they would have appeared much more understandable (& less conspiratorial) if the resigners with these grounds had produced their statements at the time.

Walworth Road was then Labour Party HQ, & Roy Hattersley was heavily involved in the process, so I don't think it needs "reporting"

Meanwhile his Twitter account is full of people exhorting him to 'save us Jeremy' and he walks around asking people to hug him.

Populist, unprofessional, and dishonest. As has been pointed out before, he is not the Messiah, he's a crap politician - who if he carries on like this will never be in a position to help anyone (and will prevent any other Labour politician doing so either).

I'm fascinated that you don't believe facts about Angela Eagle's selection which were clearly known about at the time

I haven't said 'I don't believe facts' I said if it is true then report to NEC.

Stop twisting what I say.

I wonder why it has taken so long for these details to come out?

This is what Lilian Greenwood says in the speech which I think explains why:

"In the 9 months I spent in the Shadow Cabinet I never briefed against Jeremy.

I never tweeted what was happening in Shadow Cabinet meetings or spoke to journalists about our private discussions

Whenever challenged, I defended our Party Leader."

So it sounds like she acted as professionally as she could, until she was so ground down by Team Corbyn's lack of professionalism that she could no longer continue in the job.

I posted this on another thread

"I had seen Thangam Debbonaire's & Lilian Greenwood's long speeches before now & yes, they do sound damning.

But if their resignations, & the whole orchestrated attempt to destabilise him, had such sound reasoning behind them, I wonder why it has taken so long for these details to come out?"

I've seen nothing from Lisa Nandy or Heidi Alexander.

I'm fascinated that you don't believe facts about Angela Eagle's selection which were clearly known about at the time.

LowDudgeon - do you have any thoughts on Lilian Greenwood's experience of working with Corbyn?

Or Lisa Nandy or Heidi Alexander or the awful way Thangham Debbonaire was treated whilst going through cancer treatment?

Piglet, I note you are yet to comment on the last, non-Corbynista, link I posted concerning the unconstitutional way Angela Eagle was parachuted by the party establishment into Wallasey in 1991

Sorry.

If and it is if it is true then report it to NEC.

Seems quite strange though it has been 'found' suddenly all these years by some that don't want her to run in the leadership race

LowDudgeon - do you have any thoughts on Lilian Greenwood's experience of working with Corbyn?

Piglet, I note you are yet to comment on the last, non-Corbynista, link I posted concerning the unconstitutional way Angela Eagle was parachuted by the party establishment into Wallasey in 1991

There clearly was a vote

Which he left before. His choice.

He has not questioned that there was a vote, no. There clearly was a vote.