Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

The leader was Tony Blair - Corbyn had a moral duty to oppose him. If only more MPs had followed his example.

I respect him for his track record

Continually undermining the leader and the party.

He can't demand MPs are loyal to him when he has never been himself.

Complete hypocrisy

Personally, I am not particularly interested in whether or not Corbyn is 'good' in any abstract sense. I respect him for his track record: decades in Parliament speaking up for social justice and human rights, and the work he does with grassroots anti-poverty groups in his constituency. I also appreciate the fact he was one of the few MPs who didn’t have his snout in the expenses trough. It takes real strength of character to resist a widespread culture of corruption. This country needs more servants of Corbyn's calibre.

Why on earth does it follow that he 'must be a good man' if the establishment dislikes him? That's rather childish 'goodies and baddies' think, isn't it?

The American establishment dislike Trump, and with good reason.

And what he is about is ending the influence and corruption of the self-serving elite who have annexed Westminster. They all have good cause to fear this man

Well we would know what he stood for if he actually gave policies rather than soundbites

Or stopped made a huge thing about MSM not mentioning Labour taking a council seat from UKIP without saying it was a parish council seat on a 13% turnout

So we know he lies, and that he's not smart enough not to get rumbled.

Journalists have one of the lowest integrity ratings (by the public) of all professions. So do politicians, for that matter. Are Big Pharma really more morally dubious? I'm not talking about integrity ratings, or reputations. I am talking about specific finding of serious malpractice by a company in which Owen Smith held a senior role.

Journalists have one of the lowest integrity ratings (by the public) of all professions. So do politicians, for that matter. Are Big Pharma really more morally dubious?

I imagine almost everyone sneering at Big Pharma has a pension fund very exposed to (among other things)... Big Pharma. It's a safe sector to invest in, defensive stocks are up sharply since 23 June.

I'm well aware of how dodgy big pharma can be. Doesn't negate the point being made, nor make your comparison any less ludicrous.

Hello, RiverTam, not 'someone' - me, LazyCake. We exchanged some messages back down the thread. Let's keep things friendly .

No, I wasn't suggesting that Isis and big pharma are morally equivalent. That would be ludicrous. I was saying that I couldn't understand why lijkk thought that being involved in a morally dubious industry was a plus point. Did you read the stuff I pasted about Smith's ex-employer Amgen? Not crimes on the scale of Isis, but pretty serious stuff nonetheless - especially if you were one of the cancer patients who were supplied with drugs that increased the likelihood of your death.

Sorry, has someone just compared big pharma to a terrorist group??? Big pharma, who I believe last year spent £50 billion on medical research (but of course they shouldn't have anything to do with medical research, that should be solely for the Medical Research Council, who only spent £500 million, according to JC)? That's comparable to what IS are doing? Christ on a fucking bike.

I think the point of Smith is to displace Corbyn - he's not necessarily someone who will be the leader in the longer term. Agree he's not the strongest looking candidate but he's junior enough to make it (for him) worth taking a punt I guess. Unfortunately he probably wont succeed so we're stuck with waiting for JC to fail at a general election before his adoring fans realise the hopeless situation the LP is in. But then JC doesnt seem to think winning elections is important so he may not go even then...

Was Smith suppose to not answer the Viagra question directly [...]? No, he should have realised that it was designed to make him look like a fool. Corbyn is criticised for not being media savvy, but he'd have see mile off. It would've been easy to smile and says, 'Thanks Piers, but I'd rather focus on my priorities for leadership, which are x, y and z'. (Or maybe not so easy if you haven't actually got a clue what direction you want to take this country in, but just fancied having a big, shiny job title...?)

The whole cringingly embarrassing situation would not have occurred if he'd had the sense to prioritise an interview on a serious news programme. It's just so patronising - presumably he thinks this is the kind of idiotic rubbish British people enjoy. Reminded me of when Blair appeared on Des O'Connor and did a mockney accent.

I like the fact that Owen Smith worked for Big Pharma, he knows how the bastards operate. Isn't that a bit like saying it'd be good to have somebody whose been high up in Islamic State, because they'd know what was what?!?

And I'm pretty sure Cameron did have commercial experience - he'd worked in television at Granada.

Today show is pretty demanding & mercilous on its staff, Yes, it'd be interesting to know how long Smith lasted after the 999 gaffe.

Corbyn threatening to phone Conor ex Sinn Fein cllr dad to 'get him to talk to him' Why is it chilling to get a phone call from your Dad? Sein Fein is a respectable party of Government - has been for years. Am I missing something?

I despair that the Labour Party are wasting time pissing about with a leadership contest when you look how quickly the tories have moved to have a new PM. Seamless and we've all forgotten about the Gove/leadsom debacle. Yes, I agree. I can't understand why the rebel MPs chose to do this at such a time of peril for our country.

I despair that the Labour Party are wasting time pissing about with a leadership contest when you look how quickly the tories have moved to have a new PM. Seamless and we've all forgotten about the Gove/leadsom debacle.

Labour should be establishing themselves as a strong opposition. Especially at this time of year when the government seeks to bury bad news at the end of parliament.

It is ludicrous.

Conor McGinn MP (Labour whip) claim today that Corbyn threatening to phone Conor ex Sinn Fein cllr dad to 'get him to talk to him' when he challenged Corbyn over something is extremely chilling.

Was Smith suppose to not answer the Viagra question directly; do we now prefer politicians who don't answer questions?

I like the fact that Owen Smith worked for Big Pharma, he knows how the bastards operate. I prefer his communications/management background to Cameron PPE-parliamentary secretary or Corbyn union agitator/serial party rebel.

PwC have donated a lot to Labour party; since Corbyn is part of the Labour party, he's guilty of benefiting from their unsalubrious money, too.

Today show is pretty demanding & mercilous on its staff, I don't know if Smith is being accused of nepotism as only reason why he had a job there.

Does anyone think that Owen Smith could win against Corbyn? He's a bit of a non-entity, isn't he? I hadn't heard of him a week ago.

I did some googling today and found out a few things about him...

Apparently he accepted a £60,000 in kind donation from Price Waterhouse Cooper at the same time as the Public Accounts Committee were investigating PwC for promoting tax avoidance.

And then there's the suggestion that he got a job at the BBC because his Dad was in a senior role at the Corporation, plus the claims of BBC insiders that he's a bit dim - did anyone else hear the thing about how he called 999 when his bosses told him they wanted to get a senior police officer on the radio? His response was that he was being bullied at the time. If that's the case, then I am very sorry for him - but it doesn't make me confident that he'd have the nerve to face down Isis, or for that matter drive a hard bargain with Angela Merkel, cut a deal with Nicola Sturgeon, etc...

Also watched an excerpt of a bizarre interview with Piers Morgan in which they joke about viagra, and Smith says he wants to take Corbyn on 'like a Duracell Bunny'. It got even more cringing when he went all coy and said that, whether or not he had tried Viagra was for him 'and Mrs Smith to know about'. Could he not have deflected Morgan and focused on matters of policy? Fgs - the United Kingdom is about to go down the toilet, and the EU's not likely to fare much better - could he not have said something of substance?

Anyway, I'd advise any of you who are thinking of voting for Smith to be our next PM to google it. I'm trying to imagine what he'd be like as a global leader: maybe he could organise a competitive shag-a-thon with Putin, or compare dick size with Trump?

The worse thing though is his support for NHS privatisation - that's certainly not a laughing matter. And how, as a lobbyist and later an MP, he undermined the efforts of the NHS to cut costs by using generic drugs. One of the companies he worked for sounds seriously dodgy:

While Smith was employed by Amgen, the company was battling a US investigation into one of its most successful anaemia drugs, Aranesp. Amgen was fined $762m (£579m) in 2012 for illegally promoting the drug to cancer patients in a way that increased the likelihood of their deaths. Amgen was hit with the fines after it emerged that the California company was “pursuing profits at the risk of patient safety” as it promoted a non-approved use of Aranesp. [...] Smith was in charge of corporate affairs, corporate and internal communications and public affairs at the British division of Amgen between 2008 and 2010. [http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/20/owen-smith-i-have-never-advocated-privatisation-of-the-nhs]

What do you think?

Sorry - lljkk !

Agree llkjj.

Memoires - it's a bit rich calling the MPs childish and disloyal when that is everything that Corbyn himself embodies. He and his cronies get their kicks by feeling different and self righteous but cant behave like professional grown-ups because then they wouldn't be 'woo so rebellious' any more.

I reckon he wants to be like Nicola Sturgeon and make his MPs sign a contract so they can't vote against the party line. Oh wait, that would mean he'd need to follow the party line, though, wouldn't it...?

I am open about JC trying to persuade the whole party over to his views. Really. But he would have to do it by logic & intellectual rigor, and dare I say it, charisma & canniness. He isn't doing that.

There are just so many stories about JC undermining his parliamentary colleagues. About lack of willingness to listen or engage with other viewpoints. His "principles" mean little room for compromise. How does any party get power without some compromise? Maybe the experience of LibDems in coalition proves that the British hate compromise, I dunno.

I don't warm to his policies, but his policies aren't why I've come to personally dislike JC. He's a lousy leader.

And his, Low? The fact that he votes against his own party's democratically agreed policies?

You're too late, Memoires - 48-hour window ended 5pm yesterday

I agree about the PLP MPs' behaviour.