Page 4 | Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

claig · 2016-07-12T19:02:48+00:00

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election. One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups. Go Corbyn!

Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 20:59

So if they aren't Blairites they are Oxbridge (but some oxbridge can be socialist yes - oh and again LSE is the powerhouse of economic and political thought but ho hum). If they aren't either of those they are career climbers. Isn't the constant shifting sands of your argument tiring?

It is possible to see the situation as it AND think there are other forces such as the shift in public opinion, distance of the politicians to the public, impact of social media etc. It is not a black and white situation. It never is.

However if you look at the fundamentals of a democracy one of which is a functioning opposition. That is the first priority for me. Corbyn is preventing this - to his own aims. To ensure stability for our country we need to take it one step at a time. We are not in a position or have inclination to make sweeping social change not now, not yet.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 24/07/2016 20:59

I am still hoping that the PLP will unite behind him & give proper opposition a chance.

How long do you want them to give him?

If there is a snap general election in the autumn and Labour loses many seats what then?

To be the leader you actually have to lead. That is what the PLP are complaining he hasn't done.

RiverTam · 24/07/2016 20:57

I love how claig posts poll after poll (some of which are very out of date, so do click on ever link she posts to check, don't take stuff at face value) but if someone posts a poll that disagrees with her point of view (or any other Corbynista, for that matter) suddenly polls are meaningless rubbish.

I agree that Corbyn is authoritarian. He'd be right at home in the totalitarian Latin American nations he adores so much. No thanks.

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 20:45

The reason Theresa May and Hammons are at 53% on the economy is because they are conservatives (and that brand is positive for teh economy) and because the conservatives avoided a leadership election by their tricks to get Leadsom out of the race. If the Conservatives had a long drawn out leadership contest, May's polls would have been affected.

Corbyn has had an endless media and stooge sniping campaign against him for months with the media praising Hillary Benn, the Tories giving him a standing ovation, the BBC inviting COrbyn critics on etc etc. that has inevitably negatively impacted Corbyn. And now the stooges are in overdrive mode, with a new "bully Corbyn" story every single day.

But after Corbyn wins and if he shows strong leadership, the BBC will have to return to business as usual and Corbyn's polls will rise.

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LowDudgeon · 24/07/2016 20:39

If you look at "they work for you" you can see how anybody has voted in the past.

Corbyn has voted eg against ID cards, against the Iraq war, for the inquiry into the Iraq war, & against snooping, & there are generally repeated votes about any individual bit of legislation, so the numbers can be a bit misleading.

Unlike many, he votes with his conscience. Even if you don't agree with his conscience, do you think toeing the party line is always preferable? The few Tories who have voted against eg welfare cuts have been lauded recently.

I know he has faults, & that some of what is being complained about recently is disappointing, but I am still hoping that the PLP will unite behind him & give proper opposition a chance.

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 20:39

'The 'public mood' may be very different to Labour members.'

I doubt it. Look at Brexit, it was a revolution for the people to disobey their spinners and Establishment bigwigs. It is the same with Corbyn. They won't listen to Stephen Kinnock however many times the BBC puts him on. Corbyn's polls ar low because the public is fed up with all teh sniping against him by the media and the stooges, but my guess is they prefer authentic Corbyn to Oxbridge Stephen Kinnock and the 172.

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PigletWasPoohsFriend · 24/07/2016 20:35

Everyday all over the summer, a new story will emerge of Corbyn "the bully", ebveryday a new Blairite will appear on TV to spin teh same line, and everyday Corbyn's polls will go higher because the people aren't as stupid as the spinners think.

Not everyone who opposes Corbyn is a Blairite.

The 'public mood' may be very different to Labour members.

Members do not equal constituents or Labour voters. Despite what Corbyn supporters may think.

For example

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 20:30

'My point was that you believe that all of the 172 are warmongering 'Blairites' '

No, I don't believe all of them are, but I think most of them are just "career climbers" prepared to back austerity policies, prepared to vote for curtailment of the people's civil liberties with Blair's biometric ID cards and DNA databases because they think that will please their whips, get them noticed and get them some trips and positions on committees. When it comes to principle, I don't think they can hold a candle to Corbyn and nor do the majority of Labour members, who are being ignored and insulted by the 172 who think they are more important than the members.

They, and the Oxbridge soinners and PR consultants who work for them, must think the public are stupid as they dripfeed their Corbyn "bully" stories such as Corbyn saying to Conor soandso, a whip, that he would ask his dad to speak to him after Conor, who hardly anybody has heard of, criticised Corbyn. They want us to believe that Corbyn is a bully and a monster. That shows how they underestimate the public and can't read its mood.

Corbyn is going to trounce the Establishment yet again, despite of all their spin and stories .

"Jeremy Corbyn has more than double the support of Owen Smith, poll shows"

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/23/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-more-double-support-owen-smith

Everyday all over the summer, a new story will emerge of Corbyn "the bully", ebveryday a new Blairite will appear on TV to spin teh same line, and everyday Corbyn's polls will go higher because the people aren't as stupid as the spinners think.

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Mycraneisfixed · 24/07/2016 20:20

I didn't actually believe anyone supported Corbyn

Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 20:19

You do not have to be a 'socialist' in the the purist sense to be in the labour party (Corbyn isn't is he)

Nor do you have to agree with Corbyn to be a socialist

Nor does being selected after 2005 make you a 'socialist' either.

My point was that you believe that all of the 172 are warmongering 'Blairites' (your definition not mine) analysis of data if it is available will probably show that that is not the case

But that also does not mean they are socialist either (remember LP is a Broad church)

Correlation is different to causation

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 20:13

'It would be interesting to see how many of your 172 were

a) part ofthe 139 LP MP's that rebelled againstthe Iraq war
b) were elected after 2005'

I agree. It would also be interesting to see how many of them are socialists.

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Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 20:09

Claig

It would be interesting to see how many of your 172 were

a) part ofthe 139 LP MP's that rebelled againstthe Iraq war
b) were elected after 2005

I suspect many are in at least one of the above camps - which dispells your views of establishment Blairite etc

You may want to read this

www.revolts.co.uk/The%20Mother%20of%20All%20Rebellions.pdf

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 19:29

'He rebelled over over bloody thing.'

Corbyn rebelled in order to get socialist policies. He rebelled against everything that was Tory-lite, which is why he is the biggest rebel in UK political history. He stood up for socialism and his principles.

'What's sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander'

If the Establishmentarians wish to join Corbyn on a Stop the War march rebelling against wars and policies like that, then Corbyn would welcome them with open arms even if they continued "their sniping".

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LowDudgeon · 24/07/2016 19:26

Corbyn’s home in North London is worth an estimated £650,000. That is plenty of money. He could sell that and give everyone in the UK a penny. Why doesn’t he do that if he is so communist?

m.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/politics/how-rich-is-labour-leader-jeremy-corbyn/11776.article?mobilesite=enabled

Don't know how long he's owned it but considering how London prices have escalated he'll have paid a fraction of that for it

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 19:26

'For all his faults, Blair was famed for his focus groups. '

Are you referring to the focus groups consisting of Murdoch and News International employees?

The biggest focus group was the 2 million people who marched against the Iraq War and Blair ignored them.

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Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 19:24

I mean socialist model - as you are very passionate about socialism it seems (many models are authoritarian) .

The LP is not A democracy btw. It is a party with democratic processes that include votes of no confidence

I could again describe that leaders are ultimately responsible for the culture including bullying etc but I suspect Groupthink has that on the ignore ignore list ....sigh

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 19:24

'Er - how does that fit with 'Do what I say or i'll deselect you?''

I think it has got to the stage where the public is fed up of watching this shower of an opposition who can only spin and snipe and call the leader a "bully". Corbyn is right to say "please, I beg of you, stop your sniping" but Corbyn now needs to act as well as he has been elected leader in a landslide. He has to lead.

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toooomuch · 24/07/2016 19:23

No waay Corbyn was rebelling to stop war 537 times.

He rebelled over over bloody thing.

He was a serial pain in the arse. For 30 years.

What's sauce for the goose must be sauce for the gander, or he's an utter hypocrite as well as an utter incompetent and utter fool.

toooomuch · 24/07/2016 19:21

For all his faults, Blair was famed for his focus groups.

You can criticise Blair for many things, but failing to consult with the electorate over policy is not one of them.

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 19:21

''Don't rebel against me or I'll deselect you' says the man who rebelled a record 537 times.'

Yes, but Corbyn was rebelling to stop war and some of these people voted against the Iraq Enquiry, voted for war and voted for bombing Syria, to the standing ovation of Tory MPs.

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toooomuch · 24/07/2016 19:20

"I like Corbyn because he is not "authoritarian""

Er - how does that fit with 'Do what I say or i'll deselect you?'

toooomuch · 24/07/2016 19:20

Of course Corbyn is a bully. He just others like Momentum to do his dirty work for him.

Original poster

claig · 24/07/2016 19:19

'Which model do you prefer?'

I prefer democracy, where an elected leader, voted in by a landslide with the largest mandate in UK history, is allowed to stand for reelection against any Establishmenatrian that wants to stand against him.

I like Corbyn because he is not "authoritarian" and will not remove our civil liberties like Oxbridge Establishment Blair wanted to do with his Big Brother biometric ID cards and DNA databases. I like liberty, fairness and democracy which is why I prefer Corbyn to the authoritarian Blairites..

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toooomuch · 24/07/2016 19:18

And what Corbyn says and Corbyn does are two entirely different things, as we all know.

'Don't rebel against me or I'll deselect you' says the man who rebelled a record 537 times.

Ha ha ha.

toooomuch · 24/07/2016 19:17

claig - Corbyn is one of the elite. He is one of those useless politicians who have never 'had a real job' that Farage (whom you love) keeps railing against.

Remember?