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Politics

Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

414 replies

claig · 12/07/2016 20:02

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

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AllThePrettySeahorses · 25/07/2016 07:53

Like Piglet, I've been there too although only once years ago, so I'm glad she confirmed it wasn't that big and I've also googled anyway to check details. There seem to be nearly a hundred people in each row on the lower tier when in reality it goes from 34 to 44 per total row right across the three sections. The caption also says the BBC picture only relates to a tiny proportion of the audience, when in fact, referencing seating plans, it is almost a third of the entire row around the theatre. Where are the definite breaks for the aisles as well? If Corbyn is as popular as his supporters say, why do they feel need to put demonstrably false pictures about?

LazyCake · 25/07/2016 07:36

AllThePrettySeashorses, doubtless there will be oodles of spin/propaganda on both sides.

However, I thought the Lowry looked pretty big in the second picture too, actually. Just googled the capacity - it's 1,730. That's pretty huge. (A comparison for Southerners like myself, it's bigger than the Olivier, which has 1,160 seats).

I think these pictures actually support claig's point.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 25/07/2016 07:14

I have been to the Lowry a few times it isn't as big as some are making out it is.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 25/07/2016 07:13

This is also worth remembering

Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand
AllThePrettySeahorses · 25/07/2016 07:11

Are all Corbyn rallies jam-packed though? I've been to a couple of his speeches and, although there were a lot of people, there were still a lot of empty seats.

There's also a bit of propaganda mixed into this. This picture is doing the rounds as being representative of Corbyn's rally at the Lowry theatre in an attempt to discredit a BBC picture, with what looks like rows of hundreds of people applauding. Yet as the second picture hopefully shows, the theatre is nowhere near the size it seems.

Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand
Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand
LazyCake · 25/07/2016 06:57

Haven't yet had a chance to catch up with everything that's been posted overnight, but YY to this:

Owen has been an MP since 2010 and thinks he can do a better job than Corbyn who has been an MP since before Noah built the ark, and has been a socialist all that time while Owen was at Pfizer.

A Corbyn rally is jam-packed with enthususiastic socialists and there is no such thing as an Owen rally - instead it is a man from Pfizer and his dog, 3 Oxbridge graduates and a senior Establishmentarian taking notes on Owen's diction and hand gesture performance. While Corbyn rails about Cuba, Iraq and Venezuela, Owen wonders what the point of being in the "game" is.

It made me smile, claig. Yesterday, the BBC predicted Corbyn would beat Smith 2 to 1. I'm optimistic.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 25/07/2016 06:45

The 172 cared so much for democracy, they wanted Corbyn to be excluded from the leadership contest

No that's not right. What they wanted was for him to get the nominations to get on the ballot. The same as he insisted Kinnock did.

Complete hypocrisy.

Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 22:58

List of people associated with LSE en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_associated_with_the_London_School_of_Economics#United_Kingdom

At the same time you could also say people who like the colour purple btw. I am making a point

Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 22:56

Didn't say anyone went to LSE for undergraduate. However many MP's did for masters - examples Stella Creasy, Yvette Cooper, Ed Milliband etc etc. It is simplistic to just look at Oxbridge

LowDudgeon · 24/07/2016 22:45

May was geog, but at Oxford

LowDudgeon · 24/07/2016 22:44

Osborne was actually history

& I thought I'd read recently that May did do PPE

I'd have to check them though!

lljkk · 24/07/2016 22:41

the front figures are mainly from Oxford with a PPE, whether Labour or Tory.

I don't know who is meant to be defined as 'front figures'.
I am seeing... Hague, Heseltine, E Milliband, Osborne, Cameron & P-Hammond were indeed PPEs at Oxford.
Thatcher, chemistry, Oxford + barrister by another route.
T Blair: studied law at Oxford
Gordon Brown, history degrees from Uni of Edinburgh
Nick Clegg: Archaeology and Anthropology at Cambridge
Bojo: classics at Oxford
Gove: English at Oxford
David Davis, comp-sci/MBA: Warwick, London, Harvard
John Major, Corbyn, Farage, John Prescott: didn't go to Uni.
Theresa May: read geography at Cambridge

Not mainly Oxford PPE. Nobody at LSE.

claig · 24/07/2016 22:31

'But he's not interested in democracy'

The 172 cared so much for democracy, they wanted Corbyn to be excluded from the leadership contest. The whole public is watching this spectacle and thinking does anyone listen to the members and the people or is it a club where the Establishment knows best.

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toooomuch · 24/07/2016 22:30

Yes, in times of economic hardship., the masses have always gone for dictators and extremists. Hence the unsurprising appeal of both Corbyn and Trump, who are remarkably similar in a lot of ways (though Trump is frankly rather more skilled at connecting with a wider audience, though his policy suggestions are equally 'out there').

claig · 24/07/2016 22:26

'But he's not interested in democracy, at least not when he's in charge.'

No he doesn't. He has bent over backwards to accommodate Hillary Benn and the stooges who have sniped against him and even insulted from day one, who have openly criticised him on TV and not kept their criticisms private. They have harmed the image of the Labour Party because they have made it look like a shower with lots of MPs having no faith in the leader voted in in a landslide by the members.

Corbyn wants members to be able to vote on policies, to reinstate conference voting etc, to bring members into policy decision making to reflect the views of ordinary people rather than just the Establishment MPs. That is real democracy where the members get a say in what the policies are.

'who are vastly outnumbered by the general public and Labour voters'

The Labour Party is the party of its members and should reflect their wishes and then argue for those in a united fashion to the public. The public wants a better health service, it wants more and cheaper housing, it wants more investment in job creation, it wants fewer Iraqs, Libyas and Syrias, it wants better education. If teh members decide, then there will be real socialist policies rather than the Tory-lite ones which were meant to appeal to Sun readers.

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RiverTam · 24/07/2016 22:16

But he's not interested in democracy, at least not when he's in charge. He wants to control the party absolutely, for a small number of party members, who are vastly outnumbered by the general public and Labour voters. I don't know anyone who would vote for someone so authoritarian.

claig · 24/07/2016 22:08

'I'm afraid that Corbyn can not control 'his' party, It is not 'his' party to control.'

This is what the election is all about. The 172 are challenging the leader who has the largest mandate in UK history, who was voted in in a landslide just 10 months ago and who has increased membership in a time of political apathy to levels not seen for decades, and who leads a party that had 183,000 join in one day, more than the entire conservative party membership and whose rallies are packed out, whereas even the BBC's Norman Smith was nowhere to be seen at Angela Eagle's leadership challenge announcement.

The reason this election is important for all of us (not just Labour voters) is because it shows what lengths teh Establishment will go to to remove a leader with the largest popular mandate in UK history and a man who has reinvigorated socialist politics and enthused young people. If the Establishment win, it is business as usual, if Corbyn wins, the people and democracy win.

As this article says

"Jeremy Corbyn And The People Versus The Media

In future history classrooms, students will likely be told the tale of the tag-team assault on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn by the mainstream media and MPs. It will be taught as a harbinger of what is erupting into the most pivotal crisis facing Western politics in half a century: the chasm between ordinary people and the elites. We are seeing it with the Republican establishment’s failed efforts to derail the Trump train and the Democratic establishment’s more successful efforts to extinguish the Bern.
...
These platforms have become stages upon which a rebuff is occurring, one as embarrassing to the MsM as the leadership vote. Article after article, Youtube video after video produced by the MsM touts the official talking points proclaiming Corbyn and other Left figures’ incompetence, bigotry, unpopularity etc. In every one of these, however, a quick scroll down to the comments section reveals hundreds of real people, almost exclusively saying the opposite of what the article/video instructed them to think."

www.huffingtonpost.com/kadira-pethiyagoda/jeremy-corbyn--the-people_b_11048424.html

And as Kevin McKenna said

"Kevin McKenna: Why the powers that be fear Jeremy Corbyn

Words like "unedifying" and "unpleasant" don’t even begin to describe the campaign that the British establishment have undertaken to destroy Jeremy Corbyn. Try "sinister" and "malevolent" and "venomous" instead. Yet, when you assess the nature of the forces which are lined up against him and then observe how his very name brings them to a point where they begin to boil and froth, then you know Mr Corbyn must be a good man."

------

Go Corbyn! For democracy and the people.

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Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 22:00

Oh Claig - that is just a degree and a person. Influence is often from behind

claig · 24/07/2016 21:58

'if you really believe Oxbridge is the most important in political circles now I am afraid you are mistaken'

I don't think they are important. I think they are promoted because they come from Oxford, that is all.

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Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 21:56

Claig if you really believe Oxbridge is the most important in political circles now I am afraid you are mistaken - especially as you believe the 'establishment' tries to take control

Your views are very linear. Of course they are. I'm afraid that Corbyn can not control 'his' party, It is not 'his' party to control.

claig · 24/07/2016 21:48

Yes, the LSE was the Fabians' creation and doubtless the think tanks and advisers contain many people from there, but the front figures are mainly from Oxford with a PPE, whether Labour or Tory.

'think there are other forces such as the shift in public opinion'

There has been a huge shift in public opinion, an anti-establishment mood that has taken the elites by surprise. Their spin has failed to work against it and the "Corbyn bully" line is just more of their failed spin.

Are there any polls of the public comparing Corbyn to Blair, or Angela Eagle or Hillary Benn or Owen? I am sure that Corbyn woud win them all.

'We are not in a position or have inclination to make sweeping social change not now, not yet.*'

That is what the Establishment thought but then the people voted Brexit. The mood of the public has changed. The tired old Establishment spinners invited onto the BBC no longer influence most people. That's why we had Brexit and that is why Corbyn could be next if he is strong enough to control his party.

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Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 21:39

Claig I think you forgot to answer

*So if they aren't Blairites they are Oxbridge (but some oxbridge can be socialist yes - oh and again LSE is the powerhouse of economic and political thought but ho hum). If they aren't either of those they are career climbers. Isn't the constant shifting sands of your argument tiring?

It is possible to see the situation as it AND think there are other forces such as the shift in public opinion, distance of the politicians to the public, impact of social media etc. It is not a black and white situation. It never is.

However if you look at the fundamentals of a democracy one of which is a functioning opposition. That is the first priority for me. Corbyn is preventing this - to his own aims. To ensure stability for our country we need to take it one step at a time. We are not in a position or have inclination to make sweeping social change not now, not yet.*

Oxbridge again? London School of Economics and Political science - the clue is in the title - established by the Webbs et al

Showmethewaytogohome · 24/07/2016 21:34

Low he cannot work together - he can not lead they will not follow. That is at all levels of the party - not just the PLP.

I am always amazed that people think MP's have to blindly follow - especially as Corbyn never has. How can you lead if you can not follow? He has flaws in his abilities

In the mean time lets not have a democracy - as we wouldn't have a functioning opposition - just so we can give Corbyn enough time to work out how to lead - he is worth that? Worth more than the LP? Worth more than our democracy?

claig · 24/07/2016 21:31

Oh dear, Oh dear, Oh-wen

Owen was on TV today and they fed him an entry into today's "Corbyn bully" story and he declined to go for it. Even Owen is beginning to realise that all this talk of Corbyn bullying the 172 is backfiring with the public.

So it looks like Corbyn wants to switch the message and go for the thing that makes Corbyn so popular with Labour members and the general public (including non Labour voters) - his principles.

"Owen Smith says Jeremy Corbyn's principles are 'just hot air'
...
"He's a principled man and someone who has got deep Labour values, but our question is 'can he take the Labour party to where we need to be?'

"Because without winning elections, without Labour being a serious party of government again, then all the principles are just hot air."

He added: "What's the point of being in this game?"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/owen-smith-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-government-general-election-conservative-party-a7153371.html

It sounds like Owen is ready to throw the towel in. He has only been in the "game" since 2010 when he became an MP and he is laready questioning the "point" of the "game". Will he go back to Pfizer? He can't do that, he is the 172's last hope.

Owen has been an MP since 2010 and thinks he can do a better job than Corbyn who has been an MP since before Noah built the ark, and has been a socialist all that time while Owen was at Pfizer.

A Corbyn rally is jam-packed with enthususiastic socialists and there is no such thing as an Owen rally - instead it is a man from Pfizer and his dog, 3 Oxbridge graduates and a senior Establishmentarian taking notes on Owen's diction and hand gesture performance. While Corbyn rails about Cuba, Iraq and Venezuela, Owen wonders what the point of being in the "game" is.

I don't know what the odds are, but I don't fancy the 172's chances.

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LowDudgeon · 24/07/2016 21:28

If there is a snap general election in the autumn and Labour loses many seats what then?

Then it'll be another 5 years to the next one & IME he's entitled to have a proper crack at it without being undermined all the time. (Smith or A N Other leader wouldn't win in the autumn either)

If, after 2-3 years of working together to build a proper opposition, they're still viewed negatively, then he should stand down.

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