Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

I still don't see how that means sitting back allowing mass killings of Muslims and 'ethnic cleansing' is morally right, claig

Ffs IRA not IRS

Corbyn did vote against Iraq, good on him. He also voted against intervening in the horrendous genocide in Kosovo. How come no one mentions that? How was that morally superior? Has Corbyn ever voted to intervene anywhere? I don't think politics is as simple as 'non military intervention at all costs' which got Chamberlain the name of Appeaser through history. I am also deeply uncomfortable about him coating up to the IRS when it was involved in killing people. I don't understand why Corbyn has none if this held against him. Can anyone explain?

OMG claig I actually agree with you.

I am happy to pay taxes - even on my meagre income. If taxes went up, sure I'd be a bit pissed off, but I know that it helps to keep our country's infrastructure and, more i portantly, helps pay for the welfare state and the NHS. So, if Labour - or any party - hike taxes, I'd be OK with that. I have been in the past and I will be again.

Before the next election, 75% of Labour MPs will be deselected. Labour will not take any seats off the Conservstives or the SNP. It is highly likely UKIP will take seats off Labour, especially in the areas that voted Brexit in the largest numbers. JC is currently leading a pressure group, not a political party capable of winning an election. All the promises are empty and those who think spend, spend, spend is possible, think again. It is easy to vote for this if you are not paying taxes. If you are a taxpayer, just wait for the tax hikes under a Labour government to pay for it. This is never a vote winner. Labour had to change in the 1980's/90s to get elected. In the end, it will have to change again, to the right. There will be no choice if it wants power. If it does not and wants to be a minority party, then carry on with the thugs and threats and the empty rhetoric. What a total mess of a party.

I'm a floating voter. If Eagle were in charge I would vote for any other party (except Tories - probably). If Corbyn wins this, then I probably shall vote for Labour in the next GE.

Yes, flowers, I am one of the infiltrators. Except we weren't infiltrators to begin with, were we? We were invited in, feted as 'ordinary people', 'the 99%', 'hard-working' mums and dads, etc. That is until they heard what we had to say.

Thanks for the article link. I read it, but disagree with much of what it says. Obviously there are a few loons and crackpots around who the Police need to deal with. However, I think the rebel MPs and right-wing NEC members are (deliberately?) confusing robust debate with harassment. Freedom of expression and assembly, protest marches, peaceful pickets etc. are in the DNA of the Labour movement, and I am proud to participate in them. I don't suppose the Establishment was too pleased when the Chartists assembled on Kennington Green, or the men of Jarrow marched south, but this is how ordinary people make change happen. Ironically, the ban on CLP meetings will make Labour members more likely to resort to these tactics.

Those who assume political office have a duty to listen, not just to people who look and sound like them and say things that they approve of, but to everybody. Not all of us had the benefit of being shuttled from PPE at Oxford into a parliamentary seat. We make our arguments in whatever clumsy way we can.

By all accounts the hours-long meeting of MPs in which Corbyn was serially denounced was a very hostile affair. It must have been extremely unpleasant for him to endure. But I absolutely defend the right of those MPs to put their points across. Free expression is, after all, of paramount importance in a democracy. But it worries me that, in attempting to silence members, right-wingers are treating it as expendable in order to make short term political gains.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/15/labour-death-spite-bullying-working-class-base sums up a lot of how I feel. The party is over.

It has been infiltrated by too many troublemakers and thugs - a shame for the genuinely idealistic Corbyn supporters and maybe even Corbyn himself (I remain unconvinced he is a 'nice' man at all - I think he's egotistical, stubborn, stupid and very weak). But I don't see any way of undoing it.

Yes, practy, I am appalled by this rebellion. I have Polish/Bulgarian friends who have kids in school, homes, businesses, etc, and they have no idea what the future holds for them. No one is speaking up for them or trying to get answers from the Tories. Meanwhile, Angela Eagle blubs on tele because it’s all getting too much for her. She should be ashamed, as should all the rebels.

Labour is slowly imploding. We will have a Conservative Government for many years.

Hey are you guys gonna celebrate the EU's victory over Google's search engine especially the way Google display shopping results & 3rd party website searches? It's the unaccountable elite attacking the unaccountable elite. They don't admittedly have a rich clown as charismatic leader, but otherwise exactly your kind of sport.

I'm on the fence - I am a liberal democrat after all but interested to see what 'new world' Corbyn can offer. There's talk of a more egalitarian age and a return to a well funded NHS, state run services and utilities etc - guess this all seems very frightening to the establishment. All sounds fairly exciting to me if I can believe that it would happen. Fairer surely is better? Is Theresa May really representative of normal people?

claig, I really enjoyed the Mark Steel article. Exactly what I think and feel. Why are they so afraid of simply letting people have a say?

Labour either = Corbynites OR Blairites. In reality, most Labour MPs and supporters are neither. Agreed, but that doesn't alter the fact that 60% of members threw their support behind Corbyn last year, and are likely to do so again. DS and DBIL are councillors in the constituency of one of the leading rebels, they spend almost every weekend delivering leaflets, doing surgeries - proper grassroots stuff. DBIL managed to persuade his CLP to call off a vote against their MP, saying that they needed to be getting on with their work of housing people etc, rather than indulging in internecine conflict. Moderate, sensible. However, he WILL be voting for Corbyn, along with my sister and most other members of his CLP. He told me, 'I'm in this to win elections, and I believe Corbyn can win.'

Since pollsters failed to predict the 2015 general election result, lots of people much smarter than me have been saying that they're no longer up to the job.

In the referendum, the decisive votes were cast by people who had previously been politically disengaged. My Mum worked as a poll clerk and told me that many of the people coming in had never been in a polling station before (another anecdote - sorry!) Anyway, the point is, pollsters do not yet have these people on their lists, so they must now play catch up, try to work out what they will do next, who they will support...

Ps. I'm not silly enough to think that my T-shirt experience was a bellweather, but it put a smile on my face anyway.

Labour is dead now, so it's all a bit irrelevant now anyway.

Shame, it was good once.

claig - you make the classic error of assuming that Labour either = Corbynites OR Blairites. In reality, most Labour MPs and supporters are neither.

LazyCake - thanks for age info - that was my guess. It would explain why so many young Corbynites use Blairite as a kind of all-purpose swear word - too young to remember Thatcher, they naively imagine Blair is as bad as it gets!

Ah, so you're of Claig's way of thinking that all polls are bollocks? Ok. Good to know.

Do you think that those who don't rate Corbyn might just simply ignore you and your T shirt? I mean, how many people did you cross paths with who didn't come up to you?

FWIW, I don't tend to post my views on Corbyn on social media because I can't be bothered with the Corbynistas laying in to me. I have a couple of very vocal ones on my FB (though one has gone very silent in recent days) and loads of politically engaged Labour friends who are saying nothing. Just because we're silent doesn't mean we agree with you.

Anyway, over and out. Debating with someone (the OP, I mean) who salivates over that racist, xenophobic facist Farage is kind of pointless.

How long does it take for an "anti-establishment" leader to join the establishment. 1 day after taking office? 2 yrs? Did Hugo Chavez stay anti-establishment to the end? Robert Mugabe is still marketing himself as anti-establishment.

Me too, gillybeanz.

RiverTam, I think that you are mistaken. Corbyn is held in high regard by people of all party affiliations and none. Yesterday, I wore my Jeremy Corbyn campaign t-shirt out in a very 'naice' area of south west London. Loads of people came up me - some Corbyn fans, but more often bemused Tories who wanted to chat. Even the ones who were not and never had been Labour supporters said that they liked Corbyn because he did things differently, more honestly, etc than other politicians. Ok, so that's rather anecdotal, but I found the experience rather cheering nonetheless.

About time people start to look towards an anti establishment leader.
There will be so many scared to death now, if he can deliver our nation may be strong again, rather than being run by the elite who don't give a shit.
They will do their best and worst to discredit Corbyn because he scares them so much.
I'm actually interested in politics again now