Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Politics

Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

414 replies

claig · 12/07/2016 20:02

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
LowDudgeon · 18/07/2016 23:08

Ok, he posted the day before, & said tomorrow. I got that bit wrong. I'm terribly sorry.

Peston posted the same day immediately after the meeting.

Where is your concrete evidence that they were on the agenda? Easier to prove a positive than a negative. "Gaslighting" is a very odd term to use in this situation Confused

AllThePrettySeahorses · 18/07/2016 23:05

Actually, on second thoughts I'll bite with a little corroborating evidence. Just because I can.

Neither Corbyn, McDonnell nor McClusky have said that the second and third motions were a surprise. If they did not know about them, it would have been all over the media. Corbyn has put three videos on Facebook today (last time I checked - there may be more) and has said he disagreed with the decision but has not questioned that there was a vote.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 18/07/2016 23:00

Actually, Journalist A said the decisions would be made tomorrow. It was tweeted the day before.

Where is your concrete evidence that they weren't on the agenda? There isn't any, is there? You have so nicely shown my evidence. The proof is there. It is extremely odd that you are questioning it. Gaslighting doesn't work on me.

LowDudgeon · 18/07/2016 22:43

Journalist A says these decisions will be made tonight.
Journalist B says these decisions were made without following proper procedures.

Journalist A has provided no concrete evidence that I have seen that those issues were on the agenda.
Journalist B says those issues weren't on the agenda.

I don't understand why you are so vociferously refusing to understand why I am doubtful about the contents of the agenda pending proof one way or the other.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 18/07/2016 22:31

Okay, I'm confused. The evidence is there yet there seems to be gaslighting going on here. Is that the latest Corbynista trick?

Peston was wrong, that's all - his statement was clearly contradicted by the earlier evidence. Why are you setting such store by that when you have seen yourself that he was incorrect? Also, just because you can put longer items on twitter does not mean you have to. Eaton had no need to do this.

It doesn't matter how many times you deny that the items were on the agenda, anyone can see that they were - your own picture is the proof.

LowDudgeon · 18/07/2016 21:24

&, you know, there are means of transmitting longer items on Twitter. If someone has them, & wants to.

LowDudgeon · 18/07/2016 21:19

A journalist tweeting what he was told would be decided doesn't amount to an agenda entry.

Why did Peston say it wasn't on the agenda, & was gerrymandering?

AllThePrettySeahorses · 18/07/2016 21:04

The tweet clearly tells you what items were being voted on, doesn't it? As opposed to your claim, mystifyingly made despite the fact that the items are shown on your own picture, that no one knew that they were on the agenda which is deliberate misinformation and propaganda. Wanting your own hard copy for 'proof' is irrelevant because the proof is there and it isn't like the full agenda would fit in 160 characters or less, is it? Corbyn 100%, without any shadow of a doubt, will have seen it. Whether he bothered to read it is another matter, of course.

LowDudgeon · 18/07/2016 18:35

This isn't "an overview of the agenda", is it? It's "three major decisions tomorrow". I'd prefer to see an actual hard copy, with a validated date, before accepting that there were actually proper agenda entries, & that Corbyn actually couldn't be bothered to stay & vote.

As for circulating blatant lies, I've yet to see the Eagle camp admit that it wasn't their office window that was broken, & that the Luton hotel meeting wasn't cancelled because of threats.

I was impressed that Luciana Berger tweeted Carole Malone with a correction to her anti-Corbyn rant citing Luciana's anti-Semitic messages (a neo-Nazi has been arrested) but that correction has been ignored by CM as far as I can see - certainly there's no response from her on LB's Twitter.

CM also mentioned the alleged office window brick yet again. It seems that anti-Corbyn lies are acceptable.

& yes, I do know that many people are getting horrible tweets & emails - but on both sides.

Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand
GlassCircles · 18/07/2016 18:30

And this one where she describes how he blew a media opportunity for coverage for Labour's rail transport policy, thus wasting hundreds of hours of his people's work:

"On 4 January – a cold dark Monday morning – I was at Kings Cross at 7am doing Radio 5 and BBC TV.

Standing with Jeremy and the Rail Union General Secretaries for the media photocall. It was a crucial day in the Party’s media grid.

And all across the country local party activists were outside railway stations in the cold and the dark, leafleting commuters with the materials we’d prepared. Armed with the briefings and statistics.

Incredibly, Jeremy launched a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle on the same day.

This was the reshuffle that had been talked about since the Syria vote a month earlier. A vote where I supported Jeremy’s position.

The reshuffle that meant all our staff spent Christmas not knowing whether they'd have a job by the New Year.

By mid-afternoon the press were camped outside the Leader's office. They were there for the next 3 days.

It knocked all the coverage of the rail fare rise and our public ownership policy off every news channel and every front page.

I respect completely Jeremy’s right to reshuffle his top team. But why then?

It was unnecessary and it was incompetent.

It let me down, it let my staff down but most of all it let down the Labour campaigners and trade union members, people like you, who had given up their time to go out campaigning for us that morning. "

GlassCircles · 18/07/2016 18:09

This is a pretty damning description of how JC does business by Lilian Greenwood (resigned Shadow Transport Secretary).

Whatever you think of his policies, he seems to lack even the most basic of management and PR skills.

www.liliangreenwood.co.uk/lilian_s_speech_to_nottingham_south_labour_party_members

Just one example from the above:

"I’ve been one of HS2’s strongest supporters so I when I took up the job in Jeremy’s Shadow Cabinet I wanted to be absolutely sure we were on the same page.

I met his Director of Policy to talk it through. We talked about the most difficult parts of the project, the impact at Euston in London. I'd been working with Councillor Sarah Hayward and her colleagues at Camden for more than 2 years to try and help them get what they wanted for their local residents.

It had been very difficult. I'd been to visit several times, meeting residents and businesses and dealing with some hostile media. But we secured real concessions – changes that will make a difference to local residents. It didn’t matter that it was in a nominally safe seat. It was the right thing to do.

Despite our agreed policy, despite Jeremy's Director of Policy and I agreeing our position, without saying anything to me, Jeremy gave a press interview in which he suggested he could drop Labour’s support for HS2 altogether. He told a journalist on a local Camden newspaper that perhaps the HS2 line shouldn’t go to Euston at all but stop at Old Oak Common in West London – but he never discussed any of this with the Shadow Cabinet, or me, beforehand.

I felt totally undermined on a really difficult issue."

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 18/07/2016 14:13

It WAS on the agenda. It is a blatant lie to circulate this misinformation.

Exactly.

Convenient truth for some to forget however.

JohnJ80 · 18/07/2016 13:43

I feel really ambivalent about Corbyn. I agree in some of what the man says but unreconstructed Bennism is not the way to go. Also he is only very popular with a select audience of the converted. It strikes me as more of a personality cult than a political party with electoral viability.

Basically, Labour should split and there should be PR. Then Corbyn can have his protest party -which he could call momentum or the Socialist Democratic Party or whatever; and Labour could represent the centre. Then some sort of multiparty left-wing alliance could be formed.

But as it s you have people who ideologically diverge on every level occupying the same party. At one end you have neoliberals like Hunt, Kendall etc and at the other Marxists. How on earth will that ever work?

The Tories are divided but not like labour: they are basically united on fiscal ideology if not Europe and social issues. Labour is like two people tied together each trying to walk in separate directions.

LowDudgeon · 18/07/2016 13:36

Has Robert Peston withdrawn/corrected this blog piece?

Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand
AllThePrettySeahorses · 18/07/2016 08:46

The NEC vote to bar members who joined since 12th January was entirely unconstitutional (both because it wasn't on their agenda, so several members left the meeting not knowing it was coming up, & because there's nothing about it on the Party website)

It WAS on the agenda. It is a blatant lie to circulate this misinformation. For example, ee political editor George Eaton's tweet from Monday 11th, the day before the NEC meeting, with an overview of the agenda, including membership freeze and registered supporters' fees. There is someone called Milne on the retweet list - I wonder if it is possibly Seamus Milne? Anyway, the votes were absolutely on the agenda. I think McCluskey would have had something to say for a start - Unite actually tabled an amendment to the membership freeze to reduce it to 4 weeks.

LowDudgeon · 17/07/2016 17:48

*neatly

LowDudgeon · 17/07/2016 16:02

Good sense (as usual) from Michael Rosen

I notice he describes the 170/1/2/3 (he says 172 but I can't remember how many) rebel MPs as "Labour MPs, ex-Blairite warlords and sundry miffed New Labourites doing everything they can to prevent this team emerging and strengthening itself" which sums them up nearly as they're not all Blairites, as frequently noted.

howabout · 17/07/2016 09:44

Very informative and thought provoking thread Claig.

howabout · 17/07/2016 09:43

Kezia is only still in post in Scottish Labour cos no-one else wants the job. The Scottish conference voted against her pro-Trident stance. She lost votes (IMO) because she did not tackle the unsatisfactory nature of the current devolution settlement (EVEL etc) and she moved to the "Left" on raising basic rate taxation without considering the impact on working families exposed to Universal /Tax credit cuts.

In short just like AE she is completely out of touch with the people who do / would vote for her and seems to have no underlying political compass.

Corbyn would be better off jettisoning Scottish Labour and coming to an accommodation with the SNP.

LazyCake · 17/07/2016 07:56

Kezia Dugdale and the "career politicians" telling a principled socialist that they are more in touch with working people and unions than Corbyn*

Is this the same Kezia Dugdale who led Labour to a resounding defeat in the May elections for the Scottish Parliament? They came third, behind the Tories.

And now she lectures Corbyn. The arrogance is astonishing.

claig · 17/07/2016 07:51

'Labour is having an identity crisis because it has lost its identity.'

I think it is because of the Oxbridge set, the Establishment's favourites, the ones chuffed to receive tidbits thrown to them by the Establishment in return for favourable media coverage and power, the Davos crowd, the bankers' mates, the Primrose Hill Progressives, the spin doctors, the servants of the system.

Corbyn is the antithesis of that whole crew and that is what the people are now crying our for - a return to politics of the people, for the people and by the people.

OP posts:
claig · 17/07/2016 07:45

The architect of 'Blue Labour', Lord Glasman, speaks a lot of sense in today's Mail on Sunday

'We are in crisis but a new party is doomed, says leading Labour peer LORD GLASMAN
...
He now faces a leadership contest with Angela Eagle or Owen Smith and if Mr Corbyn wins that election there is high-level talk of a breakaway party of MPs who oppose the direction of the party under his leadership.

I think that such a party would be doomed. It would be part of the problem and not the solution as it would be based on the progressive politics that led to the rupture of trust between the Labour Party and the working class in the first place.

Labour is having an identity crisis because it has lost its identity. The Labour Party has been an enormous blessing to our country and its potential destruction should be a cause of grief and concern.
...
Instead of fracturing into a new Blairite identity, Labour needs to once again draw its inspiration and leadership from the working class.

I supported Brexit with all my heart. I think the EU is hostile to democracy and has a contempt for the settled life of modest people. The free movement of labour has exerted a relentless pressure on the lives of working people.

That is why the poorest areas voted to leave. It was the Labour vote that swung the referendum.

The party should not now treat Brexit voters with contempt. Labour needs to return to its core purpose of ensuring that workers are represented at the tables of power in the politics and the economy of our country.

Talk of a Labour split is meaningless because there is nothing to split into.

In order to save itself Labour must not split, but become itself once more."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3693947/We-crisis-new-party-doomed-says-leading-Labour-peer-LORD-GLASMAN.html

OP posts:
claig · 17/07/2016 07:37

"Is it the Kinnock & Paddy Party? 150 Labour MPs plotting breakaway if Jeremy Corbyn clings on to power
...
A senior source said: 'If Corbyn wins, the party is finished in its current form. There are at least 150 MPs who would break away, and many are already discreetly sounding out donors about what they are calling 'Continuity Labour'. Stephen is central to the plans. The plotters have calculated that they could start a new party, debt-free, while leaving Corbyn's rump mired in financial problems.'
...
Mr Kinnock, referring to his discussions with Mr Ashdown, said: 'Electoral reform and safeguarding the interests of our country are common purposes among people in all parties, and I am happy to be part of that.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693903/Is-Kinnock-Paddy-Party-150-Labour-MPs-plotting-breakaway-Jeremy-Corbyn-clings-power.html

It looks like we will definitely have to be given PR voting soon because the Establishment has lost control of the people, the Oxbridge teams are unable to persuade them any more.

OP posts:
claig · 16/07/2016 23:18

And what a decent man Corbyn is to not try and overturn the will of the people.

"Mr Smith is promising a second referendum on Brexit if he becomes PM.

But Mr Corbyn said: “The country has voted – we have to respect that.”

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-considers-legal-challenge-8435835

"Neil McLeod: The appalling treatment of Jeremy Corbyn shows where Labour is heading

Writer Neil McLeod says the Labour party is fast becoming irrelevant to its members and voters

IT seemed too good to be true for long suffering socialists when Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour party.

Here was an unquestionably principled politician who, in an era of political blandness, wasn’t just another flavour of vanilla. Despite his age and length of service in parliament he proved hugely popular with young Labour voters and caused a surge in membership as he was such a breath of fresh air after years of soft-right centre-ground consensus.

He actually stood fully opposed to the Tories rather than, like Ed Miliband, slightly to their left, holding their Barbour jackets like a mildly rebellious manservant."

www.commonspace.scot/articles/8738/neil-mcleod-appalling-treatment-jeremy-corbyn-shows-where-labour-heading

A total bunch of non-entities telling Corbyn that he is useless. Kezia Dugdale and the "career politicians" telling a principled socialist that they are more in touch with working people and unions than Corbyn.

Go Corbyn!

OP posts:
derxa · 16/07/2016 23:11

Mr Corbyn brushed aside the leadership contest “as a little local difficulty”. I don't think Jeremy gives a shit. Grin