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Politics

McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles

156 replies

claig · 28/09/2015 12:56

Stunning speech by John McDonnell.

Elite in panic, 1% ers at a loss of what to do.
BBC probably instructed to try and stop the people.
Crisis meetings in gentlemens' clubs.
Directors, Director Generals, Lieutenants, Sergeants, Lords, Ladies, Barons and Baronesses in meltdown.

Teenage whizzkids at Oxbridge wooed with whopping wonga to staff think tanks whose aim is to stop the people.

All luvvies' leave cancelled, metropolitans told they have a mountain to climb to stop the people.

McDonnell, gamechanger? You betcha.

Elite already practising their pitch, sharpoening up their spin, calling all their luvvies in a last ditch attempt to stop the people. They'll be on TV tonight, the Tory-lites trying to do what the elite think is right, to stop the people with all their might.

Can the people win? Can they see through the luvvies' spin? Will they put the luvvies in the bin?

Jez they can!

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claig · 18/10/2015 20:46

You missed out Farage, I love Farage.

I am going off Corbyn and McDonnell because they are bottlers and haven't got Farage's courage to answer a question with a straight reply. They haven't even got the courage to rein in their Oxbridge luvvies who are trying to sabotage them every minute so I don't think they will have the courage to change anything.

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2015 15:11

So, you love Thatcher, Donald Trump, also Corbyn and McDonnell.
i.e. both the hard right and the hard left. You also believe in wide-ranging conspiracies among the "elite"
Not a good combination.

claig · 02/10/2015 18:04

'But with increasing numbers of Germans unable to afford the growing costs of retirement homes, and an ageing and shrinking population, the number expected to be sent abroad in the next few years is only likely to rise. Experts describe it as a "time bomb".

Germany's chronic care crisis – the care industry suffers from lack of workers and soaring costs – has for years been mitigated by eastern Europeans migrating to Germany in growing numbers to care for the country's elderly.

But the transfer of old people to eastern Europe is being seen as a new and desperate departure, indicating that even with imported, cheaper workers, the system is unworkable'

You better come back to Corbyn quick, he will stop it or go down trying before the Tory-lites and Jess Phillips and that lot all undermine him.

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claig · 02/10/2015 18:01

And don't think the Tory-lites won't try it one day.

"Germany 'exporting' old and sick to foreign care homes

Pensioners are being sent to care homes in eastern Europe and Asia in an austerity move dismissed as 'inhumane deportation'

www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/26/german-elderly-foreign-care-homes

There will probably be an EU Directive (created by the bankers and relayed to the puppets at some Bilderberg type meeting) and everyone of the PPEs will say we can't do anything about it as it would be illegal under EU law, a bit like they say we aren't allowed to protect our steel industry under EU law.

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claig · 02/10/2015 17:36

'It's not as though TFL fares are super cheap just because they're a public entity, remember.'

Yes, but remember who is in power and how different Corbyn would be. He is not part of the Establishment. He is not Oxbridge. They have nothing on him, he is not controlled. He is not interested in Bilderberg meetings like some of New Labour were. He is more interested in RMT Union meetings. He is outside their command.

'Consumers benefit hugely from lower food prices'

Not if there is horsemeat in their burgers and crap in their sausages. We can increase standards and quality of food which is better for health and will cost a bit more to ensure we have a "sustainable" farming industry - not in the Gordon Bennett sense of a carbon neutral one with a windmill in every field and a solar panel in every meadow instead of grass - but one that sustains employment.

'How?'

Because just as the invention of the printing press spread learning to ordinary people instead of keeping in the hands of the few, free and better broadband to children and the poor will allow people to educate themselves. learn new skills and create new businesses and products. There are yioutube millionaires for kids who discuss Minecraft. Let's spread broadband to everyone so that they do better and can achieve their potential, just as Corbyn rightly says.

'You could have the most productive steel factory int he world but it would still go bust if it couldn't find any customers. Who will we sell this steel too? Why will they buy it? '

Our government will buy it - not the current crop of PPEs, but Corbyn and his real left wing team - and they will build bridges and trains and planes and cars and fix leaks in our water supplies and upgrade sewers and rebuild and renovate homes etc etc. We will use our taxpayer money to pay for products that help the entire population not to give subsidies to charidees that are out of the control of local authorities and that are too often staffed by public school people and Labour luvvies who have never worked outside the public sector or without receiving a government handout.

'We do not produce steel at a price other countries want to buy.'

Then we buy our own srell for our own needs instead of importing it because the price has currently dropped so that we can save our jobs and expertise until the process rises again. We ask Corbyn to invest in new plant and new technology from our National Investment Bank in order to make our steel plants more productive and cost-effective.

'If we did, we would already have a thriving steel industry already.'

Our Oxbridge class of PPEs, barristers, lawyers, bankers and charidee supremos have mostly never worked in industry and have neglected it because our steel companies can't lobby them as well as the foreign billionaires and City moguls at the black-tie funding dinners of the party hierarchy.

'Either way, it's costing the state a huge amount just so we can have steel.'

It is costing the state a huge amount to hand our taxpayer money to some of these charidees with their self-referring clients and to aristocrats to subsiside their wind farms. Let's stop the gravy train, let's sack half of the luvvies in quangos and cut taxpayer money to charidees and let's give money to industry to create jobs and improve people's lives.

'a large heavy manufacturing base servicing an empire. Other countries are better at heavy manufacturing than we are, and we both benefit by trading the things we are good at.'

So you are a Thatcherite. We have abandoned our industrial sector, we no longer own our own car companies, unlike the French, the Germans, the Italians, the Americans, the Chinese and the Indians. We no longer make our own nuclear power plants. We are losing our skilled manufacturing base with its good wages to become a service sector economy of call-centres on minimum wage.

'Of course China & Germany make profit - as does Britain'

Our balance of payments is worse than theirs because we don't make as many things as we used to. We are world number one at charidees and Labour luvvies, but the world doesn't pay for that.

'That's why we all benefit from Free Trade, where we sell our amazing products in return for other countries' amazing products.'

The Thatcherites and Tory-lites have done a real job on you. You've swallowed it all. Listen to Corbyn or listen to Trump if you don't like left wing ideas. As Trump says

"We need fair trade, not free trade"

and most importantly of all
"This global warming BULLSHIT has got to stop"

'Why should we make when it's more expensive to make it in the UK?'

To maintain our jobs and maintain our skills in our country for our people. What do you and the Tory-lites want next? That we ship our elderly and sick to the Phillipines because it is cheaper to look after them there?

'And as I keep saying, our manufacturing industry is too expensive even for British business in Britain'

We get our government - not the PPEs form Oxbridge, but Corbyn and the left wing team, obviously without Establishment favourite Jess Phillips - to buy our stell to build national infrastructure from People's QE instead of giving our taxpayer money to bankers and some unemployable, useless Labour luvvies who couldn't survive unless they were in a charidee receiving a government handout.

'Blair wasn't perfect but Britain is better for 13 yrs of New Labour rule, certainly better than it would have been under 13 more years of Conservative rule.'

No it is not. We are lumbered with PPI debt, we have more laws and regulations and political correctness than even Cameron and his band of Oxbridge modernisers would have introduced, we have the same amount of charidees that Third Sector Cameron would have had, and we had to put up with luvvies on TV every night lecturing us on how much coffee to drink and how many eggs to eat as well as letting in millions of economic migrants from the EU which undercut the wages of the working class.

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Alyosha · 02/10/2015 16:48

Well isn't it about time we built some more railways if only to save Gordon Bennett's "planet" because according to him "we have only 50 days left to save the planet". As long as there are people, there will be a need for infrastructure and for renewing crumbling infrastructure and improving the lives of people.

Oh I agree claig, but even if we built new railways, that wouldn't power enough domestic demand for a mass employment steel industry indefinitely.

Because we are subsidising them with our taxpayer money as well as handing it out willy-nilly to Labour luvvies and what are laughingly called Labour "bigwigs in charidees.

We are indeed, it does make sense for them to be nationalised. Or to receive 0 subsidy. I'm not defending our existing system, just pointing out how expensive either option would be for the average traveller & government. It's not as though TFL fares are super cheap just because they're a public entity, remember.

But in case you hadn't noticed, we have improved them since and improved safety standards and we transport millions more people and they need cheaper fares when we have some of the most expensive fares in Europe as per usual in rip-off Britain where an Oxbridge elite class work in unison with fat cats to rip ordinary people off.

Yes, it's great (the improving standards bit). Long may it continue. Privatising BR was a mistake, renationalising it will be very expensive and arguably shouldn't really be priority numero uno for an incoming govt., but I don't disagree with the principle of the thing.

Well then we need to create one and cut subsidies to landed gentry to erect wind farms on their land with our taxpayer money thanks to the munifence of the Baronesses and Gordon Bennett and his friends.

Duke of Gloucester gets subsidies for farming, not just for windfarms. Consumers benefit hugely from lower food prices, the proportion of people's salaries paid as food has fallen as the proportion taken by housing has risen. Housing is just as essential as food, yet I can't imagine hearing you suggesting we subsidise landlords...Like me I think you also view Housing Benefit as a policy designed to line the pockets of wealthy landlords whilst abdicating the conservatives from the consequences of the dreadful right to buy policy.

Do you think money grows on trees? Are you in agreement with Gordon Bennett and his friends? What we need is jobs, industry, infrastructure, investment, development, production, manufacturing not "training schemes in further education colleges" for steel workers who have been made redundant because the EU bankers say it is illegal to support our own workers and our own industries.

Do you think money grows on trees? It is far more expensive (and wasteful) to maintain an industrial base producing things no one buys than it is to give people a decent income, training and help them work in jobs the economy actually needs! It's not the 1950s, it will never be the 1950s again, you need to give up your time machine dream.

And they were. But I love Thatcher because for the first time ever we had a Prime Minister who stood up for us, the aspirational middle class, and shared our values as opposed to the out of touch values of the liberal intelligentsia, the metropolitan elite, the Nooting Hill set, the luvvies, the PPEs, the modernisers and Gordon Bennett and his friends.

But without Thatcher we'd be living this industrial dream. She's the one that stopped subsidising underperforming coal mines and let them go on the dole with no plan for how they could fit into a new economy. She's the one that smashed union protections and created the bubbles and the economy you are trying so hard to return the 50s.

Because as Corbyn rightly says we will create better living standards, employment and prospects for our people so that they can achieve more and actualise themselves and create more productive products that eleveate the living standards of all the people instead of being crushed by austerity while the elite attend Piers Gaveston parties and burn £50 notes in front of homeless people while dismiising everyone in poverty as being genetically too stupid to be like them. Instead of QE for the bankers and their bonuses and champagne and offshore accounts, we will do a people's QE that will improve the infrastructure and living standards of the country with our own taxpayer money instead of wasting it willy-nilly on charidees staffed by Labour luvvies who are temporarily out of work because the public turfed them out in an election.

Circular reasoning. You give people jobs that produce things that are not needed. You are giving them benefits as surely as if they were on the dole. After Corbyn has built his railway, his airport, a couple of new schools and a steel factory, those people still need to be employed.

We will create a better website for our steel, for a start. Broadband is to unleash the inventive capacities of our people in the new digital age and economy so that we can create new services, new software and new solutions that we can sell to the world.

How?

Because better living standards help our people to work more productively, just like supplying a roof over people's heads gives them the stability to do more than just survive by sleeping on the streets.

You could have the most productive steel factory int he world but it would still go bust if it couldn't find any customers. Who will we sell this steel too? Why will they buy it? Why won't they put retaliatory tarriffs up?

Yes, but just like the legendary Donald Trump says, we will bring jobs back home to create products for our own people instead of importing them and importing steel from abroad which longterm puts our own people out of work. It's not New Labour, it's Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn, it's a new world. As I have said before "the people are back!" and Gordon Bennett is gone except to be rolled out in crises so that he strut up and down a stage lecturing the dwindling faithful Labour luvvies on how not to do it.

We do not produce steel at a price other countries want to buy. If we did, we would already have a thriving steel industry already. We don't even make steel currently at a price that British businesses want to buy it. In order for British businesses to buy British steel, they would have to be forced to buy it (through trade tariffs) or we would have to subsidise the manufacturers. Either way, it's costing the state a huge amount just so we can have steel. Free Trade works on the basis that some things are cheaper to produce in some countries than others (classic example: British Wool & Portuguese wine). In order for us to have a sustainable steel industry, we would need to sell to foreign countries, but those countries wouldn't buy from us as we would have put up the trade tariffs on their products.

I don't know but that is not what I am saying, I am saying we sell the TV rights to billions of people who watch it across the planet. Just like pop music or computer games or BBC programmes, it is one of our soft exports and something that we are good at.

I see you are understanding Free Trade finally. We should concentrate on those things that we are good at - such as computer games, films, high quality manufacturing etc. etc. Not try to force our economy to become a facsimile of the early 20th century, a large heavy manufacturing base servicing an empire. Other countries are better at heavy manufacturing than we are, and we both benefit by trading the things we are good at.

Do the Chines make no profit, do the Germans make no profit? There is always profit if you make products that the world wants to buy. We have the skilled people to do it but we lack investment due to short-termism and waste of our public money to hand it over to unemployed Labour luvvies doing stints in charidees.

And the world doesn't want to buy British steel. Of course China & Germany make profit - as does Britain. Most countries are not universally successful across all manufacturing industries. That's why we all benefit from Free Trade, where we sell our amazing products in return for other countries' amazing products.

No I don't. India can make it's own steel and we can make our own. If we can't make enough then we have to import it, but for Heaven's sake, let's make some.

Why should we make when it's more expensive to make it in the UK? Why can't we specialise in the sectors we're already good at?

The purpose of our own industry is not to beat China in a price war, it is to support our own national needs for our own infrastructure and to keep our own workers employed. It is "sustainability", Gordon Bennett's favourite word but he only applies it to windmills and the "planet".

And as I keep saying, our manufacturing industry is too expensive even for British business in Britain, which is why we don't currently have a mass employment heavy industrial base any more. There is no particular reason we have to make our own steel when we can buy it cheaper from elsewhere. In return we get to sell our products to other countries.

OK. You keep voting for Liz Kendall then or even Cameron and Osborne against the Corbyn you dislike. See if they improve society for you.

Blair wasn't perfect but Britain is better for 13 yrs of New Labour rule, certainly better than it would have been under 13 more years of Conservative rule.

claig · 02/10/2015 14:15

'But what if there is no ongoing demand for those things? We haven't built a new railway in a long time - large infrastructure projects can't go on indefinitely.'

Well isn't it about time we built some more railways if only to save Gordon Bennett's "planet" because according to him "we have only 50 days left to save the planet". As long as there are people, there will be a need for infrastructure and for renewing crumbling infrastructure and improving the lives of people.

'Why wouldn't we have railways? They were originally private enterprise back in the 19th century, they weren't originally built by the state.'

Because we are subsidising them with our taxpayer money as well as handing it out willy-nilly to Labour luvvies and what are laughingly called Labour "bigwigs in charidees.

'They were originally private enterprise back in the 19th century, they weren't originally built by the state.'

But in case you hadn't noticed, we have improved them since and improved safety standards and we transport millions more people and they need cheaper fares when we have some of the most expensive fares in Europe as per usual in rip-off Britain where an Oxbridge elite class work in unison with fat cats to rip ordinary people off.

'We don't really have a strong farming sector...and a lot of the subsidies go to filthy rich people like the Duke of Gloucester'

Well then we need to create one and cut subsidies to landed gentry to erect wind farms on their land with our taxpayer money thanks to the munifence of the Baronesses and Gordon Bennett and his friends.

'I don't understand this. Is this Gordon Bennett speak?

It means giving people money so they can live in dignity.'

Do you think money grows on trees? Are you in agreement with Gordon Bennett and his friends? What we need is jobs, industry, infrastructure, investment, development, production, manufacturing not "training schemes in further education colleges" for steel workers who have been made redundant because the EU bankers say it is illegal to support our own workers and our own industries.

'You have clearly said before that you thought the unions were too strong in the 80s.'

And they were. But I love Thatcher because for the first time ever we had a Prime Minister who stood up for us, the aspirational middle class, and shared our values as opposed to the out of touch values of the liberal intelligentsia, the metropolitan elite, the Nooting Hill set, the luvvies, the PPEs, the modernisers and Gordon Bennett and his friends.

'How many new airports are needed every year? How will we sustain these jobs without selling the stuff to other countries?'

Because as Corbyn rightly says we will create better living standards, employment and prospects for our people so that they can achieve more and actualise themselves and create more productive products that eleveate the living standards of all the people instead of being crushed by austerity while the elite attend Piers Gaveston parties and burn £50 notes in front of homeless people while dismiising everyone in poverty as being genetically too stupid to be like them. Instead of QE for the bankers and their bonuses and champagne and offshore accounts, we will do a people's QE that will improve the infrastructure and living standards of the country with our own taxpayer money instead of wasting it willy-nilly on charidees staffed by Labour luvvies who are temporarily out of work because the public turfed them out in an election.

'What??? How will high speed broadband help us to sell expensive steel to Germany?'

We will create a better website for our steel, for a start. Broadband is to unleash the inventive capacities of our people in the new digital age and economy so that we can create new services, new software and new solutions that we can sell to the world.

'but how are we going to sustain this infrastructure and jobs if we can't sell it to anybody but our own population? '

Because better living standards help our people to work more productively, just like supplying a roof over people's heads gives them the stability to do more than just survive by sleeping on the streets.

'That core industry would provide less employment than we currently have, given much of our jobs are predicated around providing services & products to those not in the UK.'

Yes, but just like the legendary Donald Trump says, we will bring jobs back home to create products for our own people instead of importing them and importing steel from abroad which longterm puts our own people out of work. It's not New Labour, it's Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn, it's a new world. As I have said before "the people are back!" and Gordon Bennett is gone expcept to be rolled out in crises so that he strut up and down a stage lecturing the dwindling faithful Labour luvvies on how not to do it.

'How many people do you think the Premier league employs? '

I don't know but that is not what I am saying, I am saying we sell the TV rights to billions of people who watch it across the planet. Just like pop music or computer games or BBC programmes, it is one of our soft exports and something that we are good at.

'Most innovation is US based, as that is where the profit is'

Do the Chines make no profit, do the Germans make no profit? There is always profit if you make products that the world wants to buy. We have the skilled people to do it but we lack investment due to short-termism and waste of our public money to hand it over to unemployed Labour luvvies doing stints in charidees.

'Interesting that you implicitly accept that the UK selling steel to India is a rip off.'

No I don't. India can make it's own steel and we can make our own. If we can't make enough then we have to import it, but for Heaven's sake, let's make some.

'exactly where else is huge demand for steel & other heavy industry going to come from in the future, if not from countries where they can make it cheaper themselvses/ buy it cheaper from China?'

The purpose of our own industry is not to beat China in a price war, it is to support our own national needs for our own infrastructure and to keep our own workers employed. It is "sustainability", Gordon Bennett's favourite word but he only applies it to windmills and the "planet".

'Yes, because the last Labour govt. increased taxes to 50p in the pound'

Yes it increased it to 50p about 13 days before the election as an Oxbridge teenage stunt to try and put the Tories on the backfoot as the Labour luvvies saw power slipping from their greasy grasp. They are not serious and never were and now that they have someone serious - Corbyn - they are all trying to undermine him and stab him in the back.

'I hate Corbyn's foreign policy & love of foreign dictators. I also think he's a vote loser. New Labour understand that you get elected on the centre ground.'

OK. You keep voting for Liz Kendall then or even Cameron and Osborne against the Corbyn you dislike. See if they improve society for you.

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Alyosha · 02/10/2015 13:27

Because steel is vital for buildings, trains, bridges, cars and every other fantastic product that makes people's lives better unlike Tony Blair's faith foundations and similar charidees some of which receive taxpayer funding to support their operations and the salaries of their Labour luvvies.

But what if there is no ongoing demand for those things? We haven't built a new railway in a long time - large infrastructure projects can't go on indefinitely.

But I bet you think it is a great idea to subsidise the banks and the hedge funds.

No.

Then we wouldn't have any railways or a strong farming sector. I prefer to cut taxpayer subsidies to Labour luvvies in charidees than to hard working farmers who provide healthy produce that people need.

Why wouldn't we have railways? They were originally private enterprise back in the 19th century, they weren't originally built by the state. I think the ideal rail system is a public one, but the huge amount of money it costs to renationalise them should not be a priority right now. We don't really have a strong farming sector...and a lot of the subsidies go to filthy rich people like the Duke of Gloucester

I don't understand this. Is this Gordon Bennett speak?

It means giving people money so they can live in dignity.

You thought wrong. I love Thatcher because she stood up for the middle class, the squeezed middle that the Labour luvvies always squeeze, the aspirational middle that Gordon Bennet and the gang always look down on.

You have clearly said before that you thought the unions were too strong in the 80s.

Instead of taxpayers giving QE and loans to banks, they will invest it in building schools, hospitals, roads, airports, infrastructure and houses so that people's lives are improved and so that businesses thrive by providing infrastructue that helps society. If I were in charge, I would slash the Labour luvvie charidees, the Crystal Methodist charidees, and the third sector and invest it in products, homes and infrastructure for people which would proide them with real jobs and employment as well.

HOw many new schools are needed/year? How many new roads are needed a year? How many new airports are needed every year? How will we sustain these jobs without selling the stuff to other countries? A population of 60million can't sustain enormous infrastructure spending indefinitely.

No, i agree with Corbyn that we should upscale our broadband across the entire nation to put us on the same footing as countries that do invest for their people so that our brilliant, creative, innovative people can become more productive and invent more things that benefit people across the world.

What??? How will high speed broadband help us to sell expensive steel to Germany?

No it won't. We don'y yet open up our NHS to foreign industries in a large way and even though we do let foreign indystries build and run our nuclear power plants, it doesn't have to be that way. We have the skills and ingenuity to do what they can do except that our people are denied the opportunity thanks to the City fat cats who don't invest in our people. I agree with Corbyn, let's have a National Investment Bank that invests our taxpayer money in our people and not in Labour luvvies in charidees and rich landowners who erect wind farms on their estates. Some sectors would be considered strategic and would be protected by the state and steel would be one, just as it is in Italy, who still manage to sell to the rest of Europe despite supporting national industries.

Well no, because we're not trying to sell NHS services to the rest of the world. I'm sure we have the skills to have lots of infrastructure, but how are we going to sustain this infrastructure and jobs if we can't sell it to anybody but our own population? Are you advocating a "Brave New World" type system with enforced consumption, planned obsolescence and mandatory waste?

Foreign investment locates here to use our talented, educated people resource and our state subsidised infrastructure and networks in order to sell to our relatively affluent society in order to make a profit. If it is only here to rip us off aided by Establishment City stooges, then we can do without it and invest our money in our industries instead of Labour luvvie charidees.

I agree with you to a certain extent. Some businesses are only located here because we allow foreign companies to own our railways, power stations and build our trains.

No we would support a core industry sufficient to our internal needs to develop our infrastructure to make our lives better even if that means cutting government subsidies to Labour luvvies.

That core industry would provide less employment than we currently have, given much of our jobs are predicated around providing services & products to those not in the UK.

So where will they get their life-saving pharmaceutical drugs and their pop music and their Prmeier League rights etc from?

How many people do you think the Premier league employs? and Britain is small fry for pharmaceuticals. Most innovation is US based, as that is where the profit is. I'm sure they'd cope.

Just as foreign companies should not be here to rip us off, we also would not rip anyone else off. This is not New Labour. We would create products and services that the world needs and we would sell them and we would also prevent our framers from going out of business because they provide valuable produce that our people need. It's common sense, not Gordon Bennett logic.

Interesting that you implicitly accept that the UK selling steel to India is a rip off. exactly where else is huge demand for steel & other heavy industry going to come from in the future, if not from countries where they can make it cheaper themselvses/ buy it cheaper from China?

Do you think Boris Johnson will do that, do you think the City will do that, do you think Tony Blair will do that or will it be Corbyn who is the only one who does that? And do you think Corbyn will get elected and if he doesn't then hiow will it happen? Do you think there will be a Big Brother dicatorship that forces it to happen and don't you realise who runs Big Brother and that they will never allow it to happen?

Yes, because the last Labour govt. increased taxes to 50p in the pound and kept inheritance tax thresholds the same for decades, essentially raising it.

So now you want to finally vote for Corbyn. I prefer Trump and Farage, but Corbyn comes close for me too. I don't like Gordon Bennett.

No. I hate Corbyn's foreign policy & love of foreign dictators. I also think he's a vote loser. New Labour understand that you get elected on the centre ground. You can play around with taxes after you get elected.

claig · 01/10/2015 16:14

'What's the point of having a strong steel industry if it doesn't help the rest of the economy?'

Because steel is vital for buildings, trains, bridges, cars and every other fantastic product that makes people's lives better unlike Tony Blair's faith foundations and similar charidees some of which receive taxpayer funding to support their operations and the salaries of their Labour luvvies.

'I don't think it's a great idea to subsidise poorly performing business sectors on the off chance that one day they might come back. '

But I bet you think it is a great idea to subsidise the banks and the hedge funds.

' In my mind we should have no agricultural or business corporate benefits at all'

Then we wouldn't have any railways or a strong farming sector. I prefer to cut taxpayer subsidies to Labour luvvies in charidees than to hard working farmers who provide healthy produce that people need.

'a much stronger social welfare system to support people to get the jobs that do exist'

I don't understand this. Is this Gordon Bennett speak?

'I thought you loved Thatcher because she crushed the unions? '

You thought wrong. I love Thatcher because she stood up for the middle class, the squeezed middle that the Labour luvvies always squeeze, the aspirational middle that Gordon Bennet and the gang always look down on.

'So taxpayers will give enormous handouts to wealthy businesses. great'

Instead of taxpayers giving QE and loans to banks, they will invest it in building schools, hospitals, roads, airports, infrastructure and houses so that people's lives are improved and so that businesses thrive by providing infrastructue that helps society. If I were in charge, I would slash the Labour luvvie charidees, the Crystal Methodist charidees, and the third sector and invest it in products, homes and infrastructure for people which would proide them with real jobs and employment as well.

'at the end of this spending spree we will still be left with excess capacity to sell to the rest of the world, who won't buy it from us because of our protectionist policies. What a wonderful plan!'

No, i agree with Corbyn that we should upscale our broadband across the entire nation to put us on the same footing as countries that do invest for their people so that our brilliant, creative, innovative people can become more productive and invent more things that benefit people across the world.

'If we impose trade tariffs and row back on free trade because we want to develop our own steel industry, we will certainly not be the workshop of Europe, we will be the workshop of the UK. Foreign investment will withdraw and lots and lots of people will lose their jobs. '

No it won't. We don'y yet open up our NHS to foreign industries in a large way and even though we do let foreign indystries build and run our nuclear power plants, it doesn't have to be that way. We have the skills and ingenuity to do what they can do except that our people are denied the opportunity thanks to the City fat cats who don't invest in our people. I agree with Corbyn, let's have a National Investment Bank that invests our taxpayer money in our people and not in Labour luvvies in charidees and rich landowners who erect wind farms on their estates. Some sectors would be considered strategic and would be protected by the state and steel would be one, just as it is in Italy, who still manage to sell to the rest of Europe despite supporting national industries.

'Foreign investment will withdraw and lots and lots of people will lose their jobs.'

Foreign investment locates here to use our talented, educated people resource and our state subsidised infrastructure and networks in order to sell to our relatively affluent society in order to make a profit. If it is only here to rip us off aided by Establishment City stooges, then we can do without it and invest our money in our industries instead of Labour luvvie charidees.

'Well claig, in order for us to sell enough heavy metal to sustain a huge industry, similar to that we had in the 50s, we would need someone to buy it from us. '

No we would support a core industry sufficient to our internal needs to develop our infrastructure to make our lives better even if that means cutting government subsidies to Labour luvvies.

'no one is going to buy anything from us'

So where will they get their life-saving pharmaceutical drugs and their pop music and their Prmeier League rights etc from?

'Perhaps we should re invade India and the rest of the empire to create a captive market? Is that the UKIP dream?'

Just as foreign companies should not be here to rip us off, we also would not rip anyone else off. This is not New Labour. We would create products and services that the world needs and we would sell them and we would also prevent our framers from going out of business because they provide valuable produce that our people need. It's common sense, not Gordon Bennett logic.

'That is what will happen if we don't raise corporation tax, inheritance tax and massively tool up an alternative welfare state with a good minimum income.'

Do you think Boris Johnson will do that, do you think the City will do that, do you think Tony Blair will do that or will it be Corbyn who is the only one who does that? And do you think Corbyn will get elected and if he doesn't then hiow will it happen? Do you think there will be a Big Brother dicatorship that forces it to happen and don't you realise who runs Big Brother and that they will never allow it to happen?

'That's why it's so important to vote for people who will increase inheritance tax, corporation tax and income tax on the upper middle classes.'

So now you want to finally vote for Corbyn. I prefer Trump and Farage, but Corbyn comes close for me too. I don't like Gordon Bennett.

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Alyosha · 01/10/2015 15:15

I didn't say Italy wa a successful economy, I said they protected their steel industry and we haven't.

What's the point of having a strong steel industry if it doesn't help the rest of the economy? I'm sure it's great for those employed in steel, but having people employed in industrial jobs is not some kind of platonic ideal, it's supposed to serve a wider purpose; i.e. to create things that people will buy. If people won't buy it because it's too expensive, there's not much point in keeping it open.

Italy was a great manufacturing nation, ahead of us, who were once the workshop of the world and who gave railways to the world. The reason Italy has suffered is because their political class put them into the Euro and they now can't be competitive in a world economic downturn. But the Italian government rightly tries to protect their remaining industrial base so that when we eventually emerge from the worldwide downturn (when Donald Trump takes the world out of it) then there will still be something left in Italy that can be fired up again and start producing again.

I don't think it's a great idea to subsidise poorly performing business sectors on the off chance that one day they might come back. In my mind we should have no agricultural or business corporate benefits at all, and a much stronger social welfare system to support people to get the jobs that do exist, rather than wishing that well paid industrial jobs will magically come back when it is uneconomic to do so. I don't want to be giving large businesses huge benefits & tax breaks - we should be using that money on our people, to upskill them and train them for the jobs that they can do.

Because Italy is not like here. In Italy there would be a revolution if the technocrats in government went too far in hitting workers' rights and union rights, so just as in France, the elite have to step very carefully.

I thought you loved Thatcher because she crushed the unions? France & Italy didn't have a Thatcher and as a consequence they have stronger worker protections - if you are lucky enough to get a job and if you are lucky enough to be employed permanently rather than as a contractor. I am all for strong worker protections but do try to be consistent...

In the new Labour Party that you are not a fan of, Corbyn will force the Bank Of England to lend money for infrastructure projects and we will rebuild our country and railways and homes and we will use the stell that our workers produce to do it. Factories will spring up to service the demands of infrastructure renewal.

So taxpayers will give enormous handouts to wealthy businesses. great. We will pay over the odds for railways, homes & other services and at the end of this spending spree we will still be left with excess capacity to sell to the rest of the world, who won't buy it from us because of our protectionist policies. What a wonderful plan!

I am not particularly interested if Slovenia can be the workshop of Europe or not, what I amn interested in is that Britain becomes the workshop of Europe and we use our taxpayer money to ensure industrial investment instead of Gordon Bennettian investment in wind farms and Millenium Domes.

I know that in your UKIP fantasy land Britain would be the only country in the world (or Russia - who knows) - but European countries will need to buy things from us in order for us to be the workshop of Europe. If we impose trade tariffs and row back on free trade because we want to develop our own steel industry, we will certainly not be the workshop of Europe, we will be the workshop of the UK. Foreign investment will withdraw and lots and lots of people will lose their jobs.

But why does that mean that we shouldn't produce things, invest in infrastructure and industrial development and save our stell industry. I am not a Bennettian.

Well claig, in order for us to sell enough heavy metal to sustain a huge industry, similar to that we had in the 50s, we would need someone to buy it from us. Now, if we are refusing to buy from other countries & imposing trade tariffs and forcing British companies to buy British & excluding foreign companies from state contracts, no one is going to buy anything from us. Perhaps we should re invade India and the rest of the empire to create a captive market? Is that the UKIP dream?

That is what the elite want in their green new world and that is what they want their servant political clas to deliver for them so that people's living standards decline and millions more become part of the planned precariat. But there is resistance - there is UKIP and above all there is Doanld Trump. American people understand the elite's game, now they have a challenge.

That is what will happen if we don't raise corporation tax, inheritance tax and massively tool up an alternative welfare state with a good minimum income.

*You really don't understand the elite at all. Do you think they are going to give a good lifestyle to people whom they term "scroungers". Don't you know what they are planning in their green new world for what Kissinger is said to have called "the useless eaters"?

But UKIP and Donald Trump will stop them and Corbyn will not be far behind. It ain't over yet. The people are back.*

Well I'm sure they are, claig. That's why it's so important to vote for people who will increase inheritance tax, corporation tax and income tax on the upper middle classes.

claig · 01/10/2015 08:06

When Trump takes over there will be so much grovelling to him from puppets across the planet, it will be the biggest laugh ever.

Modernisers will pretend they have always been old school, that they were real Conservatives all along, spin will end and straight talking Trump tweets will be the norm and paid-for Baronesses on expenses who draw up global warming schemes, fancies and follies will find they aren't invited to Trump's dinner parties and the people will be invited instead.

Here is one of Trump's statements that made the elite's blood run cold.

"Look, they don't respect our president. They don't respect our country. They will respect me. They won't be doing it."

The people are back!

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claig · 01/10/2015 07:58

And the really worrying thing for the elite and every single one of their puppets and modernisers on the planet is the panic inducing tweet on Trump's twitter account, which is monitored 24-7 by the elite's teenage whizzkids.

When the teenages ran like fury to the elite's office to inform them of Trump's latest earth-shattering tweet, there were reports of fainting in the room, cries of anguish and abusive berating of puppets.

This is what the ground breaking Trump tweet said.

"This global warming BULLSHIT has got to stop"

We are in a new world. The people are back!

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claig · 01/10/2015 07:47

Grazia, the world has changed.

We have seen the extraordinary rise of Farage and the People's Army who struck fear into the elite. Then we witnessed the shock rise of Corbyn who defeated all of the elite's candidates, and finally we have the biggest and most important shock ever - the rise of the people's Presidential candidate, The Donald. Here is what he says and when the elite heard it, they called for their meds and knocked them back in haste. Utter panic is an understatement, emergency phone calls to puppets was the norm, crisis meetings were convened.

This is what Trump said

"We need fair trade. Not free trade. We need fair trade. It’s gotta be fair."

It's clear that the people are back!

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Grazia1984 · 01/10/2015 07:25

Free trade has not gone far enough, not the other way round.

claig · 01/10/2015 00:22

'It will be like the UKIP performance in the general election, lots of noise but no power or influence.'

But unlike Farage who had no money and needed millionaires who stitched him up half the time because they are really Tories who only want to leave the EU and don't have any other UKIP values, Trump is a billionaire who doesn't need to beg and scrape to donors, no one can buy him, no one tells him what to do. He even says he supports Putin's stance in backing Assad which no puppet would dare to say. They can't control Trump and the Republican real Conservative voters love him even if the Republican elite are petrified of him.

However, as conspiracy theorists say, Trump may be a phoney candidate whose role is to help politically correct Clinton, just like Ross Perot whom we all loved ended up being a phoney who betrayed us and whose role was to help Bill Clinton. Only time will tell and we will find out if Trump deliberatley self-destructs his campain to let Clinton in, but if he doesn't and if he is in it to the end, then just as we all loved Perot, the good, decent American Conservatives and the majority of the people will back Trump over politically correct Clinton every day of the week.

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caroldecker · 01/10/2015 00:14

claig It will be like the UKIP performance in the general election, lots of noise but no power or influence.

claig · 30/09/2015 19:32

I feel sorry for the climate change gang - the Lords, Ladies, Baronesses, the New Labour grandees, the LibDem worthies or unworthies, the Tory modernisers and the poor old rooftop wind turbine hawkers, squawkers and sellers.

Trump is going to spoil the party. The people will party like it's 1999. Grin

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:25

What is going on in the world? Corbyn, Farage, Trump. Are the people back?

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:23

'Speaking about Putin he said that if he were elected he would be able to be friends with the Russian leader, and then praised his skills.

'I will tell you that, in terms of leadership, he's getting an "A" and our president is not doing so well,' he said.

'They did not look good together,' he added, referring to their recent tense meeting at the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

He also said he agreed with Putin on his backing of Syrian President Bashar Assad.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3254412/Donald-Trump-calls-Putin-better-leader-Obama-admits-grow-Republican-nomination-ends-week-long-self-imposed-exile-Fox-News.html

Incredible stuff. Front runner in race for Republican nomination for President, billionaire, no puppet. What can they do about him?

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claig · 30/09/2015 19:14

"Trump on Putin Controlling Syria: ‘OK, Fine,’ Him Fighting ISIS ‘Wonderful Thing,’ ‘Very Little Downside’
...
On Tuesday’s “O’Reilly Factor” on the Fox News Channel, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump stated that it’s “a wonderful thing” Russia’s Vladimir Putin is fighting ISIS and responded “Alright, okay, fine” after host Bill O’Reilly stated Putin would “never get out” of Syria.

Trump said [relevant exchange begins around 3:55] of “in terms of leadership, he’s getting an A, and our president is not doing so well.”

When asked what he thinks Putin is doing in the Middle East, Trump stated, “Well, we spent $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors all over, and Putin is now taking over what we started, and he’s going into Syria, and he frankly wants to fight ISIS, and I think that’s a wonderful thing. You know, I said that a year ago and everybody said oh, that’s terrible. If he wants to fight ISIS, let him fight ISIS. Why do we always have to do everything. But he wants to go in. He wants to fight ISIS. Now, he wants to keep, as you know, he wants to keep your leadership, your current leadership, Assad in Syria. Personally I’ve been looking at the different players, and I’ve been watching Assad, and I’ve been pretty good at this stuff over the years, cause deals are people. And I’m looking at Assad and saying, ‘Maybe he’s better than the kind of people that we’re supposed to be backing.’ Because we don’t even know who we’re backing.”

Trump added that there’s “very little downside with Putin fighting ISIS, and Putin wants to keep ISIS out of Russia and, therefore, he’s become very active with respect to ISIS, and I think that’s to our benefit.”

O’Reilly stated, “Once Putin gets in and fights ISIS on behalf of Assad, Putin runs Syria. He owns it. He’ll never get out, never.” Trump said, “Alright, okay, fine. I mean, you know, we can be in Syria. Do you want to run Syria? Do you want to own Syria? I want to rebuild our country.”

www.breitbart.com/video/2015/09/29/trump-on-putin-controlling-syria-okay-fine-him-fighting-isis-wonderful-thing-very-little-downside/

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claig · 30/09/2015 18:11
Grin

True

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MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 30/09/2015 18:09

Ah, no, Boris uses this guinea pig:

McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles
claig · 30/09/2015 17:57

It looks more like Boris than Trump.

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MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 30/09/2015 17:52

a propos Trump, special treat for you all:

McDonnell's Speech - Barnstormer. Panic in the usual circles
claig · 30/09/2015 17:49

'rooftop wind turbine manufacturers this genuinely made me laugh. Thanks, claig.'

The old ones are the best Grin

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