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Politics

Could somebody explain why Corbyn shouldn't be voted for as Labour party leader?

710 replies

Myturnnow4 · 12/08/2015 15:53

I've listened to people argue this, but haven't heard a reasoned argument yet. The main criticism appears to be, "he's on the left" but don't go on to explain why that in itself is a bad thing.

OP posts:
Redkite2015 · 30/08/2015 15:44

What? Vote him or his cronies otherwise you are doomed!!!

Guy perhaps in illusion of being important.

ALassUnparalleled · 30/08/2015 13:04

Blair is absolutely correct in his analysis.

straggle · 30/08/2015 06:36

Tony Blair was never voted out by the general public - or even the members. Only half of the selectorate are actual members.

Redkite2015 · 30/08/2015 06:31

Labour must come to its senses.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34100741

Redkite2015 · 30/08/2015 06:29

Perhaps the reason Tony B Liar is not in House of Lords is that he still think Labour voters would invite him back as Leader. Man in Alice in wonderland.

straggle · 29/08/2015 23:13

And the real challenges for Labour Party funding are only just beginning.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/29/yvette-cooper-legal-challenge-trade-union-bill-labour-leadership

ALassUnparalleled · 29/08/2015 12:24

*Because the chances of Prime Minister Corbyn in 2020 are approximately zero. An election campaign fought by a 71 year old man whose politics have been repeatedly rejected at the ballot box by the UK electorate, with five years of age shift meaning that the electoral influence of the baby boomers, who are mostly fairly comfortably off, will be at its absolute peak.

A focused, united Tory Party, led by a 49 year old George Osborne (most likely), versus a grey-haired pensioner who gets rattled by being chucked soft ones on C4 News? C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie.

Corbyn is wildly popular on twitter, amongst people of whom there aren't many and they don't vote anyway. Examples of campaigns that were wildly popular on twitter: AV and Scottish Independence. Remind me how those votes turned out?

The best Corbyn could do would be to stack up larger majorities in what are already safe Labour seats, plus (possibly) winning a few Lab/Tory marginals. That's not enough to form a government, assuming (as is likely) that the SNP don't implode in fratricidal killings in the next five years.

I have some sympathy with Corbyn's policies in the abstract, I voted Labour in 1983 so I'm one of the people that a similar set of policies didn't alienate and I don't necessarily see policies of the left as inherently impossible. But the reality of an Osborne/Corbyn general election in 2020 will be five more years of Tory misrule, and if youreallycare about the vulnerable, rather than wanting Labour as a talking shop, a compromised Labour government that can do some good is infinitely preferable to a pure Labour opposition that can do nothing*

This post sums it up perfectly. The idea that there are millions of voters who will swing it because they didn't vote in the last election because there wasn't a sufficiently left wing candidate is nonsense.

The idea that those who did vote didn't vote Labour because it is insufficiently left wing is nonsense.

Like the poster of this comment I voted Labour in 1983 that was despite the set of policies then not because of them.

Isitmebut · 28/08/2015 13:03

Re the OP question, I've just heard on Sky that a paper cup with Corbyn's DNA on it has sold at auction for £50.

If a paper cup costs a penny and there are enough suckers out there that would pay £50, Jezza could gob on millions of them and single handedly get rid of the annual UK government budget deficit.

First year sold within the UK, second year Cuba, third year Venezuela ....now THAT is what I call 'money printing'. lol

straggle · 27/08/2015 17:53

So far most of the 60,000 rejected are duplicates or not registered voters so there's nothing suggesting unfairness in that. It depends on how many more get rejected and whether that's solely in the intention to vote LibDem or Green. Personally I think that canvas data would only be valid - or possibly even collected - in a marginal seat. Tory/TUSC/UKIP votes have to be ruled out wherever - though TUSC vote would be tiny: Michael Crick estimated there were only about 8,000 of the old Militant activists so that wouldn't sway away from Corbyn. LibDem or Green in a Tory/Labour marginal? That suggests they would rather see the Tories win than Labour.

We will at least be able to see the split among full members, £3 supporters and affiliated union supporters. And I'd like to see a geographical breakdown too.

Redkite2015 · 27/08/2015 11:46

Many potential Corbyn supporters are being ejected, so looks like Corbyn could loose with a small margin, after second/third preference votes distribution. All set for continuous blairites/centre-left infighting. Sad.

Financially inept, PFI proliferater, Andy Burnham could be a narrow winner.

Viviennemary · 27/08/2015 10:11

I think he will be but it's anybody's guess. I thought the election would be cancelled in view of all this. They could declare it null and void I suppose.

WetAugust · 26/08/2015 20:20

I don't think Corbyn will be elected leader.

claig · 26/08/2015 19:49

It was a Pyrrhic failure. He will be back. He won 4 milion voters, a third of the total votes the Conservatives won. With a PR system, he would have had 81 seats

caroldecker · 26/08/2015 19:31

Farage failed - lost his own seat and the party actually reduced the number of MPs.

claig · 26/08/2015 18:18

'6 months ago who'd be the next leader of the Labour party, I bet few would have suggesting him, rather than one of the other front leadership candidates '

No one foresaw this, not even Corbyn himself. This is unrecedented in a major Establishment Party. No one foresaw the success of Farage and the anti-establishment feeeling of the people, but the Corbyn phenomenon is a revolution in that it tears up the entire 30 year post-Thatcher consensus and exposes the Labour elite as Tory-lites and it is all down to ordinary people, not Corbyn's talents or rhetorical skills - although his principled, unchanging positions in opposing Blair and the Blairites is a huge factor in his success.

claig · 26/08/2015 18:08

I didn't think it would be Boris for quite a while because he is not serious enough. But against Corbyn, Boris would be a good choice, because Corbyn is serious and the Tories will lose most of the serious arguments against him, so only Boris could sidestep their losses by avoiding serious debate.

DinosaursRoar · 26/08/2015 18:08

Oh and let's not forget, Farage couldn't translate that popularity into seats. The next leader of the labour party doesn't need to increase their share of the votes in safe Labour seats, the next leader of the Labour party needs to win a large number of people who voted Tory at the last election.

But then I don't really think any of the candidates can do that, so why not Corbyn.

DinosaursRoar · 26/08/2015 18:04

oh and it's amusing that so many Corbyn supporters are so certain it'll be Corbyn vs Boris at the next election - if you asked most people (including Corbyn himself!) 6 months ago who'd be the next leader of the Labour party, I bet few would have suggesting him, rather than one of the other front leadership candidates or even the various people who didn't throw their hats in the ring.

I don't think we can assume the Tories will pick Boris unless it's very clear he could win.

Alyosha · 26/08/2015 17:59

Hardly. No one outside the Labour party & the fringe left seems enthused - much though I dislike him, Farage's trick was to attract disaffected Labour & Tory voters. Corbyn is only attracting disaffected Labourites.

DinosaursRoar · 26/08/2015 17:58

I think, sadly, Corbyn has a steep learning curve - he's never had a cabinet position or shadow cabinet - he's only been a back bencher since '83, and hasn't had a high profile. Therefore he's just not used to having to be careful what he says - talking about an idea like woman only carridges is fine when you're a backbencher, but when you are talking about being a party leader, people notice what you are saying and it's picked apart v quickly, he's having to learn not to talk about ideas until they are a bit more firm.

claig · 26/08/2015 17:57

Jon Snow on Corbyn and the people's insurgency.

"In short, alienation has come to rule beyond the confines of traditional power. Hence, I argue, the Ukip, the SNP and now the Corbyn insurgence."

blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/corbyns-run-alienation-rules/25695

"MP says passion she has seen amongst Corbyn supporters is unprecedented
...
“In my years of campaigning and being involved in politics I have never seen anything like this. This level of energy and passion – it doesn’t happen. No matter what you think of him, people are responding to him – they are responding to what he stands for.”

Despite the seemingly unstoppable groundswell of support for the only anti-austerity candidate in the running to lead the party, senior Labour figures have been lining up in recent weeks to warn of the dangers of electing Mr Corbyn.

“Those attacking his supporters need to get the message that the politics of the 1990s and the 2000s are not want people want anymore,” added Ms Osamor. “People don’t trust politicians any more – they want people who look and sound like them to represent them. I found that out first hand when I campaigned in Edmonton.”

www.barnet-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=7310&headline=MP%20says%20passion%20she%20has%20seen%20amongst%20Corbyn%20supporters%20is%20unprecedented

This is almost like Faragemania.

claig · 26/08/2015 17:37

Who were given a made up dodgy dossier, compiled by Blair's chief spin doctor, that stated WMD's were in Iraq and could be fired in the time it took to boil an egg, or something like that.'

And they "believed" it.

Isitmebut · 26/08/2015 14:42

Just like when 'NO Smoking' was introduced on some train carriages, what happens if have a carriage full of worried women and you can a belligerent bottom wipe who INSISTS on his human rights, in this case to 'chat up' women with his shirt made of 'boyfriend material'?

"He will need the support of the Greek Tories and the Greek Tory-lites, just as Blair needed them for Iraq, where Corbyn voted against them."

Who were given a made up dodgy dossier, compiled by Blair's chief spin doctor, that stated WMD's were in Iraq and could be fired in the time it took to boil an egg, or something like that.

Corbyn often voted against his own party, he is anti NATO, no doubt like you pro Putin, and would toll out the red carpet should the Russians invade - a country needs a strong no nonsense leader who bares his chest riding on horses, eh, not a big woose who'd give up before the first shot was fired.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 26/08/2015 13:59

I think it's great that he's acknowledged the harassment women put up with on trains. He didn't say that female only cars are the answer, he said women can decide what they need and if they want single sex cars. He would consult women and let them decide, crikey we better halt this madness! Grin

squidzin · 26/08/2015 10:33

Yes Wet August, 100%.

And good thing this will be for the UK, And maybe even the world.