Could somebody explain why Corbyn shouldn't be voted for as Labour party leader?

While the Blair/Mandelson front seemed 'terribly relaxed' about wealth, Brown in the background was annually increasing taxes directly and indirectly, via Fiscal Drag - so New Labour was a bit of a scam. IMO

Perfectly put "If you want to share the wealth it has to be created in the first place. this is the big issue with socialism, it assumes wealth just appears."

And I agree there HAS to be something in this Labour internal bun fight for the Lib Dems, especially now Tim Fallon(?) appears to be bringing them back to their pre 2010 selves.

The Lib Dems only did what was right for the country when there could have been political instability at the worse possible time, so people need to understand that - as individually they were a Tory pain in the ass as never really lost their leftie, sandal wearing and tree hugging roots.

And versus Labour, they have a better 80-year economic CV, as in power they have left the UK economy in a better shape than they found it.

1. Trade union figures have not doubled. Registrations are lower than votes cast last time, and turnout could be lower still. Registrations have taken time to build up because members have to actively opt in both to political levy and Labour values. See figures below, taken from 2010 figures and Michael Crick Twitter posts. Their share of the vote will be about the same or a bit lower. The difference is MPs’ influence, reduced from 33% of the proportion of votes to under 5% in relation to one person one vote, while £3 sign-ups are swamping the contest despite no evidence of past or future commitment. Some of the latter may be Tory infiltrators, some may not even on the electoral roll, or duplicates - we have no idea.
2. The numbers below will reduce because of (a) de-duping those who are already Labour members, (b) those who are affiliated to other parties, (c) turnout being lower than registration.

Figures for 2010 votes cast, approx 10% of ballots distributed, compared to 2015 contest registration in brackets:
CWU - 18,957 (10,000)
GMB - 43,106 (24,000)
UNISON - 28,142 (20,000)
UNITE the UNION - 111,270 (104,000)

The situation is not like it was in the 80s.

Then, the country was recovering the 70s, culminating in the Winter of Discontent.
Mrs. Thatcher set about smashing the unions.

Now it's gone too much the other way. Zero hour contracts, job insecurity and poor working conditions for many means that the interest in banding together to fight for jobs and rights is growing in popularity.

People are seeing that we aren't all in this together.

Why people won't vote for him - Fear of the unknown. Tax and spend might be spend on something that benefits you, but you don't know that. You know you'll lose money on the tax element of that, not sure if the spend will balance it out or improve your lot. With the Tories, you know where you stand, on your own with a few elements of government spending ring fenced. Tony Blair for all his faults, did a good job at convincing middle class people that they had nothing to fear from a Labour government.

He doesn't seem to really like middle class successful people, and seems rather sneery, those people aren't going to trust he wouldn't shaft them. Blair managed to come across as "being one of us" to the middle classes. He wasn't going to do anything too terrible.

Working class and poor people don't turn out to vote in large numbers. You need to win over the middle classes and someone who seems to look down at aspiration and self reliance isn't going to win any new votes to the left, at best he'll get some from the Greens.

If Corbyn becomes the Labour leader, I can see the LibDems doing very well out of it.

Also a lot of 'wealth' is tied up in property - this disappears if no-one is rich enough to buy it. Eg, a house is currently 'worth' £20 million. If we are all equal and can only pay £100k for a house, that house is worth £100k - £20m of rich persons 'wealth' instantly destroyed.

squidzin trade union applications to the Labour party doubled in the last 24 hours before it closed, so the TU could get thier man in.
Trade union membership is going down the pan.
If you want to share the wealth it has to be created in the first place. this is the big issue with socialism, it assumes wealth just appears. Also. there isn't that much wealth in the first place when shared across 64 million people.

I'm not a communist, so not equal no.

Non-exploitative, yes.

When wealth=Power, you can only obtain power without wealth in numbers. Power to demand a fair living standard etc through a collective movement.

Would you like to see an equal wage for all squidzin?

Remember squidzin even us dullards get to vote!

I was interested enough to follow the discussions on the parliament channel with the pundits and pollsters. The detail they came up with tallied with my experiences of voters I know. It is very interesting if you look at data and listen to non-political (i.e. the majority of the electorate) people.

I have to admit I have self selected myself away from talking to hardliners over the years so I don't move in those circles you are quite right.
(Apart from the local barber who wants a revolution of sorts but reckons Jeremy Clarkson is your man!)

RedDaisyRed the highest earners paying so much in tax simply highlights the vast wealth divide.

I would rather live in a society where the wealthiest didn't pay so much more in tax, because I was earning substantially more to pay more tax myself.

Address exploitation, not taxation.

Nice scenario but it relies on an altruistic Corbyn who puts the Labour Party electoral chances first.

I saw the far-left at work in the 80s and this doesn't seem aLIKELY outcome.

RedRowanBerries. You must be intrigued by Miliband's total wipeout, followed by a metoric movement within labour to bring in Corbyn.

Trade union membership doubling in 24 hours? He is attracting people obviously outside of your circle. it's not imaginary it is actually happening.

Most people could not afford their own homes in the past and many pensioners are on £7k a year pensions. Don't believe all you see in the press about the old being rich!

Never in British history have the highest earners paid a higher percentage of tax but the left don't like to mention that.

The left thankfully are moving back to cloud cuckoo land with Corbyn which is wonderful as it means 10 years of Tory rule which will be better for the country. Bring it on.

tethersend

Although I broadly agree with him on most issues, I do not want Corbyn at the helm in 2020.

This is why I want him to win this contest; I don't want any of the current leadership candidates at the helm in 2020.

I am almost certain that if Corbyn wins he will step down after a short period. This will allow another contest with better candidates to take place in time for the next general election.

This is exactly how I feel. In my political fantasy Corbyn wins and thwarts the tories at every turn, the tories have to return to the middle ground as they are being shown up for the hard right party that they are. 2019 Corbyn steps down and we have another leadership contest with some really good candidates, Dan Harris wins and becomes prime minister.

I know a fair number of labour people excited about Corbyn - the same ones that adore the SNP and for the same reasons: the poorly defined sense that all wrongs will be righted and hard choices were wrong choices without any details about how much taxes need to rise to fund expanded spending. Tell us how much you are going to raise taxes by, and what you are going to do with the money, exactly. Don't tell me you're 'anti-austerity' etc. because it's morally wrong - fine, that's obviously a sentiment many can get behind but show me the detail. I wouldn't vote for Corbyn because I have no trust that he understands how to govern.

I'm not on Twitter nor is anyone I know.

I am Labour by instinct not Tory and don't know any avowed Tories. I don't know anyone who is in the least bit interested in Jeremy Corbyn.

I did vote Labour under Milliband's leadership, despite being underwhelmed by him personally. I am for council house building and looking after workers rights and giving young people a hand in life. I see a need for unions but that's balanced with a dislike of giving influence to Len McCluskey and his ilk who focus on a very narrow set of the workforce anyway.

And as for the Foreign policies espoused by the likes of Corbyn - you have got to be kidding. (Or living in a Twitter bubble.)

HA the accelerating wealth divide "Whatever".

Great Westminster reply pneumo.

Precisely your Westminster downfall.

Agree claig.

And on that note I'm away to the shops to spend my vast wealth.

Oh well, if you've got friends Pneu then it must be true.

"Middle-class young 'will fare worse than their parents'

David Cameron's social mobility and child poverty inquiry to issue grim warning as debt and job fears create 'perfect storm'"

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/12/middle-class-young-people-future-worse-parents

It will be the middle class who will sweep Corbyn to power. The middle class will ignore the BBC and their promotion of the Establishment's new favourite, Labour MP, Jess Phillips, who told us on Newsnight last night that she had never heard of Jeremy Corbyn until recently and that no one on the doorstep has even mentioned him and that he is not what Jess, the Esablishment's new favourite, thinks of as progressive. The middle class doesn't care what she thinks and the more they promote her, the more middle class voters will choose Corbyn. The BBC won't fool the middle class. We will bring Corbyn in.

The metropolian elite the Giuardan and the BBC are all in it together, but the working and middle class are together too, and we outnumber them, which is why we will win whoever they promote and however many speeches Blair gives.

but those of us in our late forties with middle-class baby boomer parents in their 70s and older don't enjoy anything like the wealth they have

Fixed that for you.

I have friends in their late forties whose parents were, respectively, miners and shipbuilders. How much better off do you think their parents are than they are?

everybody else has stagnated or dropped in real wages terms and increased cost of living.

Whatever. We'll find out in 2020.

Latest ICM Poll for the Guardian:

?????Conservatives 40% Labour 31% Liberal Democrats 7% UKIP 10% Green 4% SNP 5% PC 1% Other 1%

Since then elections have been won by (a) Tories or (b) social democrat "soft left" Labour

Not up here they haven't.

No, not the Corbynite cry - the Pneu cry