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Politics

If Jeremy Corbyn is 'out of touch' why are his views so popular with the UK public?

57 replies

blacksunday · 01/08/2015 11:53

If anyone is out of touch with public opinion, says Ian Sinclair, it is not Jeremy Corbyn but the three other Labour leadership contenders.

“I don’t bother writing about Fox News. It is too easy”, American dissident Noam Chomsky explained in 2010.

“What I talk about are the liberal intellectuals, the ones who portray themselves and perceive themselves as challenging power, as courageous, as standing up for truth and justice. They are basically the guardians of the faith. They set the limits. They tell us how far we can go. They say, ‘Look how courageous I am.’ But do not go one millimeter beyond that.”

The recent column about the Labour leadership contest from the Guardian’s highly influential Labour-supporting commentator Polly Toynbee provides a perfect example of Chomsky’s truism.

According to Toynbee, of the four hopefuls the Labour left candidate Jeremy Corbyn “is the free spirit, the outsider not playing by the usual political rules.” And that, apparently, is precisely the problem with the Member of Parliament for Islington North: “Unfettered by what a majority of voters beyond Islington might support in a real election, he’s a romantic, saying what no doubt many Labour members believe”.

Smearing by association, Toynbee dismisses Corbyn as “a 1983 man” and “a relic”. Voting for Corbyn “is ignoring the electorate”, according to Toynbee.

Having finished her demolition, Toynbee then literally erases Corbyn from the race, arrogantly debating the prospects of “the three main contenders” before settling on the shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper as the most promising candidate.

Toynbee’s argument echoes the feelings of a large section of the so-called progressive, liberal intelligentsia. “I could probably live with any of the other candidates”, noted Labour MP and BBC commentator Alan Johnson about Corbyn, likening his politics to electoral “suicide”.

Ditto the Guardian’s Martin Kettle (“Corbyn offers a programme of prelapsarian socialist purity”), the Telegraph’s Dan Hodges, (Corbyn is proof “crazy Labour is alive and well”) and Blairite foot soldier David Aaronovitch.

As Chomsky said: do not go “one millimetre beyond” the limits of acceptable debate.

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Corbyn's positions and the public

But how valid is Toynbee’s central criticism – that Corbyn is out of touch with public opinion? Let’s look at the polling data on some of Corbyn’s key political stances:

He supports a publicly run NHS, a position supported by 84 per cent of the public, according to a November 2013 YouGov poll.

He supports the nationalisation of the railways, a position backed by 66 percent of the public, including a majority of Conservative voters, according to the same poll.

He supports the nationalisation of the energy companies, a position supported by 68 percent of the public, including a majority of Conservative voters, according to the same poll.

He believes the Royal Mail should be publicly owned, a position supported by 67 percent of the public, according to the same poll.
He supports rent controls, a position supported by 60% of the public, including 42% of Conservatives, according to an April 2015 YouGov poll.

He opposes the retention of Trident nuclear weapons, a position John Curtice, Professor of Politics at Strathclyde University, notes is supported by a "smallish plurality" in "the majority of polls".

He strongly opposed the 2003 Iraq War, which was also opposed by the more than one million people who marched through London on 15 February 2003.

He has long pushed for the withdrawal of British troops from Afghanistan, a position favoured by 82 per cent of the public, according to a May 2014 YouGov poll.

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Who's out of touch?

So, contrary to Toynbee’s assertions, Corbyn’s key political positions are in actual fact supported by a majority of the British public. (And arguably the issues that Corbyn is out of step with public opinion on, such as immigration and welfare, are those that have been engulfed in huge amounts of media-driven ignorance).

In short, if anyone is out of touch with public opinion, it is not Corbyn but Toynbee, most of the liberal intelligentsia and the three other Labour leadership contenders.

www.stopwar.org.uk/news/is-jeremy-corbyn-the-unacceptable-romantic-face-of-british-politics

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lostinikea · 11/08/2015 20:52

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claig · 11/08/2015 20:16

Sorry article was

"Win or lose, Jeremy Corbyn has already changed the rules of the game"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/05/jeremy-corbyn-political-stitch-up-anti-austerity-labour

There is no turning back. Blair, Campbell and all the rest can't put the people back in their box ever again. They are history, and 66 year old Corbyn is the future.

claig · 11/08/2015 20:13

'www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-hints-at-warmer-relations-with-russia-10449856.html'

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/05/jeremy-corbyn-political-stitch-up-anti-austerity-labour

Incredible stuff. It has taken a Labour loss for this to happen. If Labour had won, then we would have had years of soinners, liars and politicallly correct puppets on our TV screens tinkering around the edges, implementing pointless policies etc. But Corbyn has changed the game and spinners like Alastair Campbell and all his mates haven't caught up with the people.

claig · 11/08/2015 20:00

What all the spinners like Alastair Campbell, who interrupted his holiday to come on the news today to urge Labour members not to vote for Corbyn, saying that Labour members haven't learned from their defeats when Labour goes left wing under Foot or Miliband, fail to understand is that Foot was at a different time, when the unions were too strong, and was against Thatcher not against today's moderniser, Cameron, who is almost indistinguishable from politically correct spinner and moderniser, Blair.

Also, the public didn't believe Miliband was left wing. His policies were mere tinkering, a sop to socialism, but keeping the billionaires happy.

What is different about Corbyn is that he has real courage and writes his own rules. No billionaire tells him what to do, no millionaire tells him which charidee to spend public taxpayer money on. He makes his own decisions. The whole country knows he is for real and that is why many Tory and UKIP voters will support his polcies that are for the people and not for the elites.

The end result is that the billionaires are fuming and they are taking it out on their political class of puppets who are receiving daily bollockings.

claig · 11/08/2015 19:43

I don't hink you understand what radical means.

Radical means going against the billionaires who are the puppetmasters of the Oxbridge set. the billionaires don't care about rent controls or student tuition fees. They will allow changes in those areas.

What they care about is TTIP, NATO, GM crops and GM food, fracking and isolation of Russia. Corbyn has thrown everything into doubt. He has questioned them all. That is why there is panic to 'Stop Corbyn'. With Corbyn, there is a danger of peace and prosperity for ordinary people breaking out.

The billionaires don't like what they are hearing from Corbyn. Their promoted puppets started off laughing at Corbyn and assured their masters that he was a joke, but now the masters are giving the puppets a right bollocking as they realise he is no joke.

'Labour leadership: Jeremy Corbyn hints that he wants warmer relations with Russia '

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-jeremy-corbyn-hints-at-warmer-relations-with-russia-10449856.html

Corbyn has torn up their rule book and is writing his own. That is not allowed. That is radical.

blacksunday · 11/08/2015 19:12

Yes, not radical. Radical in the context of the narrow political consensus of Westminster, perhaps, but not radical in a political ideology sense.

What he is proposing is to better regulate Capitalism and nationalise industries which are 'natural monopolies'.

Other policies like scrapping tuition fees, rent controls, and an increase in the top rate of income tax are not only already in place in many countries, but have the support of the majority of the public in the UK.

These are hardly 'radical' policies. They're social-democratic policies, which are already in place in many economies in Western europe.

Don't get me wrong: he's miles more progressive than anything else that's on offer, just don't pretend like he's some kind of Commie radical when he isn't.

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outtolunchagain · 11/08/2015 17:29

The majority of the country may like socialist policies but socialism is expensive and like it or not the majority of people in this country do not want to pay for socialism .

Corbyn is offering the moon in a stick , his policies are like a wish list . The Tories don't fear Corbyn because he might win an election they fear him because he will give the Labout party two or three years to sort themselves out before ditching him in favour of Dan Jarvis ( or someone else more electable) before the next election .

There is a real place for people like Corbyn in politics , he is the fist shaking campaigner on the sidelines , but does he have the skills to manage the Labour Party machine and the PLP ;I don't think so .Plus whilst not wanting to be ageist he will be 71 by the next election and were he to be elected 76 by the next one . It's a big job for someone of that age.

Redkite2015 · 11/08/2015 16:22

I don't understand why can't left of the centre be treated as bonafide Labour party members or supporter. Many such people stopped supporting Labour in Blair's time; and in Jeremy Corbyn are able to reconnect with Labour.

claig · 08/08/2015 23:24

"Jeremy Corbyn to 'bring back Clause Four': Contender pledges to bury New Labour with commitment to public ownership of industry"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-to-bring-back-clause-four-contender-pledges-to-bury-new-labour-with-commitment-to-public-ownership-of-industry-10446982.html

Not radical?

Can you imagine the panic among the Oxbridge political class of servants to the billionaires, lobbyists and corporations? Can you imagine the 24 hour non-stop bollockings they are all getting from big business and billionaires? Have you ever seen Blair and the Blairites perspire as much as they are doing now?

Not radical? Short of Che Guevara, it doesn't get much more radical than Corbyn, which is why Blair was wheeled out.

claig · 08/08/2015 23:14

'Corbyn's policies are not even that radical.'

Are you kidding?

The headline in tomorrow's paper is Corbyn saying, "I will bring back Clause 4" and he says he would prefer to leave NATO. You can't get much more radical than that. There are a lot of 1 per centers and their servants who will be spitting tacks at this stuff.

blacksunday · 08/08/2015 10:53

niceguy-

You'll also note: Capitalism doesn't work. ;)

I agree. Capitalism is hugely wasteful and thrives on human greed.

BUT it works better than the alternatives. So until someone can invent a new system it's the best of a bad bunch.

Capitalism exists because of power and greed, not a lack of a better way of organising.

People try to organise things more rationally all the time but are fought by the state, media, and police.

And many of his policies are not only popular with the public

Correction: "And many of his policies are not only popular with the public labour supporters....."

No, the public - unless you think two-thirds of the public are Labour supporters.

Corbyn's policies are not even that radical. It's just that after 20 years of neo-liberalism, any hint of soical-democratic policies or regulation of unbridled casino Capitalism is labelled 'radical' by the press.

Corbyn isn't anti-Capitalist. The policies he is proposing are pretty mainstream in many developed Western economies.

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NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 08/08/2015 09:43

IknowIam - 'alleged issues'? Do you seriously doubt the word of the CAB, every other organisation that's done research into this - including those taking that research to parliament itself, the DWP's own manual, all the people up and down the country living in poverty with experience of sanctions? What exactly would it take to convince you?

Yes, I do think Labour in the past, new labour under Blair, is as much to blame as the tories. As kaftanlady says, it's neoliberalism which is at fault, and neoliberalism is driven by all members of our political class. The whole class is an issue, not one group or another.

Go look at that kittyjones blog post I linked upthread about how the narrative is being controlled, a narrative you seem to have swallowed.

Will Corbyn change things? I sure as hell hope so, he's the best hope I've seen for a long time. If he betrays us now the way Blair, the Lib Dems and the rest of the Westminster crowd did there will be hell to pay, socially, economic and environmentally. I'd rather give him the chance than not, because if something doesn't change we'll be in that hell scenario anyway.

kaftanlady · 08/08/2015 08:14

The system we are operating under at the moment is not simply Capitalism but Neoliberalism.

It is the cause of the financial disasters worldwide and of immense suffering as those in power use neoliberalism principles with the aim of consolidating power and wealth in the hands of an ultra rich ruling elite

Although actually those in power are quite happy to move away from pure Neoliberalism.when it benefits them, eg to ignore the core concept of small-statism when it suits them (eg bank bailouts and subsidising a supposedly privatised UK railway system).

The idea that a powerful elite are manipulating our politics and media to exploit us and get richer and more powerful while we all get poorer and give up the rights we've won over the last century or so may sound like tin foil hat stuff, but actually this is what is happening.

It's simply not true that there is no alternative.

For a decent description of what Neoliberalism is, see What is Neoliberalism

niceguy2 · 08/08/2015 02:04

You'll also note: Capitalism doesn't work. ;)

I agree. Capitalism is hugely wasteful and thrives on human greed.

BUT it works better than the alternatives. So until someone can invent a new system it's the best of a bad bunch.

And many of his policies are not only popular with the public
Correction: "And many of his policies are not only popular with the public labour supporters....."

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 07/08/2015 18:36

The results of the survey portray a truly horrific account of the destitution and human misery that this regime – introduced by Labour and then enthusiastically expanded by Iain Duncan Smith – has inflicted on people.

So it's not just Tory Scum is it? It's Labour Scum too.

Is it the government (which is transitory) or the DWP (which is permanent) causing these alleged issues?

Why do you think that Corbyn as leader would make a difference? When have Labour ever rolled back a "devastating" Tory policy when they took over the reins of power?

Never

Because they like to maintain the "we wouldn't do that" image, whilst actually knowing it's what has to be done to keep the country running.....

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 07/08/2015 15:40

Here's also a link to the transcript of oral evidence presented to a parliamentary enquiry data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/work-and-pensions-committee/benefit-sanctions-policy-beyond-the-oakley-review/oral/17722.pdf

It says somewhere, I think on p. 24, that the DWP manual actually states that they've always known sanctions would have deleterious effects on health. And they don't care.

I think I said upthread, or somewhere anyway - benefits are the minimum amount needed to survive. What do you expect to happen when they're taken away exactly?

You could also google Black Triangle campaign for the disabled, which had a list of some if the people who've been killed by sanctions one way or another. With mumsnet's IT problems at the moment I can only do 1 link per post. That should be enough to start you off.

This is no conspiracy theory. I only wish it were.

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 07/08/2015 15:33

There have been a few links on mumsnet and you could always google, but since you ask try this for starters.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/benefit-sanctions-are-state-terrorism-and-must-be-stopped-without-exceptions/

It's got links to a CAB survey from 2 years ago showing the misery sanctions were causing then. They're still doing so today. Johnny Void has loads of links into other areas that you can explore.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 07/08/2015 10:05

No, if you're going to make sweeping statements like that, please provide a link to the evidence.

I've got better things to do than run around after other people's conspiracy theories.....

kaftanlady · 07/08/2015 08:25

"IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou"

Benefits sanctions are killing people.

Please, if you feel like arguing with this first of do a little research (hint, Google) the effects of sanctions on some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 07/08/2015 08:08

I hate the cruelty and death being inflicted upon the poorest and most vulnerable people in society.

Evidence please.

Sounds like more of the same old scaremongering and bullshittery from a hysterical left....

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 07/08/2015 08:03

Y'all want to have a look at this.... kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/inverted-totalitarianism-and-neoliberalism-oh-dear/

I am extraordinarily grateful to this writer for nailing down and articulating exactly what makes me so nervous about the attacks on Corbyn, and the constant comments from people who think only centre politics - by which they actually mean right-of-centre - are the only possible way to go. I disagree that it's only the tories who are the problem, Labour have been playing along too, there is I believe a professional political class that has been creates, but the rest is superb.

There is nothing inevitable about the current socioeconomic system we find ourselves in. It has been deliberately created and can be undone to orrow There are other ways of living. Not only can we find them, we need to find them urgently. Go Corbyn.

TelephoneIgnoringMachine · 04/08/2015 20:24

I don't think he's out of touch. I only wish the Labour party would stop fighting each other & start pulling in the same direction. We walked past this poster the other day - my three year old DD understood it. Why can't they.

If Jeremy Corbyn is 'out of touch' why are his views so popular with the UK public?
NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 04/08/2015 20:16

or are. Confidence is, slanders are. Smile

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 04/08/2015 20:15

I'm increasingly annoyed by all these people (I've seen loads elsewhere) repeatedly claiming that the vast majority of the country know socialism - or indeed any left-of-centre policies - doesn't work because look they did so badly on the last election.

Neither of those ideas are true. Most polls are suggesting that most people want to see left policies brought back, eg nationalization of railways. As for them losing the election so badly go and look at the vote percentage figures. They were not that far behind the tories - just 6%. Doesn't count as a catastrophic loss imo. In fact, they actually gained more of the vote percentage from the election before than the tories did - 1.5% gain over 0.8% gain. The fact that their gains didn't translate into seats this time (Blair's 3rd victory was equally questionable) isn't much to crow about, it just shows how broken our so-called democracy is.

My own feeling is that the overwhelming prediction of possible left-wing coalition victory brought out the right wing voters in droves. And they still only managed a 6% extra vote percentage.

Your confidence and slanders of the British people is entirely misplaced.

blacksunday · 04/08/2015 19:43

You'll also note: Capitalism doesn't work. ;)

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