Can we talk about the collapse of Lib Dems?

Fascicle: the difference is that the LibDems came third in the 2010 election. For them to then go into Government with the Conservatives smacked of power-chasing at any cost.

The House of Commons and the House of Lords do work together.
The Election is to decide which direction to take with their policies. People voted for the Conservatives because they wanted to bring in their policies. LibDem voters did not agree with the Conservatives and wanted the LibDem agenda.

What people did not vote for was a watered down version of Conservative policies with the odd bone of appeasement thrown to keep the LibDem leadership happy. It was seen as a betrayal by LibDem voters (and a fair few Conservative voters who promptly tripped off to UKIP).

I don't find Coalitions abhorrent, but I just that that going into Coalition with the current breed of duplicitous Tories was disastrous. The war time coalition worked pretty well, and laid the foundations for some good reforms.

RagstheInvincible Fully agree. I voted LibDem too, whilst holding my nose. I had hoped that UKIP would take a good slice of the Tory vote, just to spoil it for them, but no such luck.

I now feel quite angry that Clegg has helped to throw away a generation of work spent nursing seats, working for the Community, building up a majority.

Tanith
Why did they need to go into a coalition when they could have been just as effective in curbing Tory excesses by voting against them?

Presumably there's a better opportunity to effect positive change, and get some of your manifesto enacted, if you are part of the system, with some of your members in cabinet positions.

They never explained that decision adequately and it left them wide open to accusations of power-chasing.

But politics and government is all about getting into a position of power to make change - that accusation could be thrown at most politicians and parties. I think it strange that people find the idea of a coalition so abhorrent. Working together with people who have different skills and views is encouraged in most other workplaces.

I think Clegg totally underestimated the level of hatred the grass roots have for the Tories. He was damned from the moment he entered the coalition. He might have got away with it if he could have delivered a reformed House of Lords and proportional representation - but he couldn't. Tuition fees were just the last nail in the coffin. I voted LibDem (the LD vote dropped 20% i our constituency in a straight fight with the Tories) but I held my nose while I did so.

Some of the people who voted for them in 2010, would have been disaffected Labour voters, so their votes were lost immediately.

They didn't explain satisfactorily their decision to form a coalition with the Conservatives and that's why so many who voted for them in 2010 saw this as a betrayal.

Why did they need to go into a coalition when they could have been just as effective in curbing Tory excesses by voting against them? They never explained that decision adequately and it left them wide open to accusations of power-chasing.

I voted LibDem (I always have - I'm old) but I knew it would be lost in my constituency as it's a Tory stronghold. I believe in their policies though but going into a coalition with the Tories was never going to end well for them. They were seen as 'cosying-up' to the Tories and compromising their principles for a share of power. I think this is where it went wrong:

1. They weren't effective enough in explaining to the voters WHY and WHAT they had done while in the coalition.
2. They failed to realise that Nick Clegg wouldn't win an election because of 1. He was seen as a traitor. They need to find a new leader.
3. They failed to show the electorate that they are truly a third option to voting Tory or Labour and not simply wavering between the two.

"Nick Clegg should do 'donkey work' for five years to 'repay' party for failure, says former Lib Dem MP

Former Deputy PM told it would be an 'insult' if he quit parliament for Europe or the Lords as his legacy becomes central topic in leadership race"

Nick Clegg must "repay" his party for taking them into government by doing "the donkey work of being a good constituency MP" for the next five years, furious Liberal Democrats have said.

Amid rumours that Mr Clegg is considering stepping down as an MP after leading the party to electoral wipeout, Lib Dems have told The Telegraph he must serve as a backbencher to atone for his disastrous decision to form a coalition.

It comes as the strategist credited with turning the Lib Dems into a party of government criticised Mr Clegg for repeating the “mistakes” of previous campaigns.

Lord Rennard, the Lib Dem peer, said there was “real anger” the party had lost so many MPs after talking about forming coalitions rather than its vision for the country before the vote.

A fierce battle over Mr Clegg’s legacy as party leader is due to take place over the coming weeks as the remaining Lib Dems decide who should be his succcessor."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/11596182/Nick-Clegg-should-do-donkey-work-for-five-years-to-repay-party-for-failure-says-former-Lib-Dem-MP.html

Clegg won't be doing any "donkey work". He done a grand job and fulfilled his duties "musically no less".

I think it is a good article by LibDem who is seeing things from a LibDem perspective as opposed to the country's, the Coalition's or the Tory Party's position.

He heaps praise on Clegg for his communication skills (some would cvall them spin), but he also analyses Clegg's decisions and thinks many of them fell short, particularly for the interests f the LibDems.

People call Blair, Tory Blair and you wonder whether Clegg is as LibDem as some of the others.

"As party leader, Clegg puzzled us all by ignoring the more senior members of his Commons team including Campbell, Alan Beith, Malcolm Bruce, Simon Hughes and Kennedy. Instead he created a negotiating team entirely of newer and younger colleagues whom he could dominate. He himself had become leader after only two years in parliament and had been leader for less than three. He compounded this omission by not appointing any of the senior members subsequently to his ministerial team."

What were the senior LibDems doing about this while "the leader after only two years in parliament and had been leader for less than three" Clegg was running the show?

Clegg did a good job for the Conservative Party.

He apologised "musically no less" for the tuition fee debacle and there aren't many senior LibDems left in Parliament.

"Clegg worked as one of Brittan's aides when he was EU commissioner for trade. One of Brittan's many roles, in his new job, will be to make progress with the Doha round of international trade talks – a similar task on which he worked with the younger Clegg.

Mischief makers have long said that Brittan told Clegg he would make an excellent Tory prime minister and this part of Clegg's career is often referenced by detractors who believe he is more Conservative than Liberal.

Clegg insists that Brittan's key role in his career was to introduce him to the then Liberal Democrat leader Paddy Ashdown when he visited Brittan in Brussels. After that meeting, Clegg became more active as a Lib Dem."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/19/leon-brittan-conservatives-nick-clegg

It sounds like he simply didn't like clegg and comes across as rather bitter rather than having any real gems of wisdom. Its easy to be critical in hindsight isn't it?

Well he says that "former leaders should be seen and not heard". Shame he didnt take that advice before writing the article . And as for Clegg promoting those he could dominate- half the problem was that he couldnt get Vince to STFU and stop frightening the horses.

Has anybody read David Steel's piece in the Guardian? ('Six ways Nick Clegg steered the Liberal Democrats to disaster')?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/nick-clegg-liberal-democrats-disaster-coalition

I find it deeply irritating that Steel should publish this now. It's unprincipled, untimely and not terribly useful. If he had concerns and useful insights, the time to share them has passed. I also find it extraordinary that he - an elder statesman of the party with a seat in the House of Lords - has only met Nick Clegg once. In his position, wouldn't he encourage and support future leaders? (Unless of course he really didn't like them.)

Thanks! Norman Lamb seemed to be very respected for the things he achieved and the understanding he showed as minister. I see he's thrown his hat into the ring as well. I really want to get behind the #LBBill (have quized my 3 (tory) city mp's on it tonight - one has replied and said he's looking at it). I'm pretty sure iirc Norman Lamb was supportive of it and the work being done by the Justice for LB team. I feel I have to play catch up over the next couple of weeks. 2015 had been a tough year for ds1 so we've been doing a lot of surviving & I feel
out of touch on key issues!

saintlyjimjams i know MN don't like arse-kissers and all, but I know your name from round these parts and I'm really impressed you think us LDs are worth your time. You'll be a member in time for the leadership election so can I recommend you quiz Tim Farron as hard as you are able on the question of disabled/carer benefits?

His voting record looks not great at the minute: www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11923/tim_farron/westmorland_and_lonsdale/votes
but it's possible a lot of this was whipped in the Coalition so he can have a tiny bit of benefit of the doubt.

(DS is likely to need some support to live independently when older so this is a worry for me too)

I think the LibDems were wrongly condemned for going into coalition. I agree, the country did not want a minority government (and also agree it would have been a bloodbath if Labour and the LDs had tried to rule together with the largest party in opposition). Frankly I would much rather the Tories in coalition with the LDs than the DUP.

But the country appears to fear coalition politics - and what I don't like about them is the fact it exposes the machinery of politics much more than a majority government. The deal making and compromises, we all thought about what each party would trade with the others last week - without any of the parties confirming anything.

I agree they should have pushed harder and I think would have done if they had anticipated the scale of the backlash. Will they ever agree to go into coalition again? I would want some MAJOR concessions given the inevitable punishment at the end of the term.

I think the LibDems were wrongly condemned for going into coalition. I agree, the country did not want a minority government (and also agree it would have been a bloodbath if Labour and the LDs had tried to rule together with the largest party in opposition). Frankly I would much rather the Tories in coalition with the LDs than the DUP.

But the country appears to fear coalition politics - and what I don't like about them is the fact it exposes the machinery of politics much more than a majority government. The deal making and compromises, we all thought about what each party would trade with the others last week - without any of the parties confirming anything.

I agree they should have pushed harder and I think would have done if they had anticipated the scale of the backlash. Will they ever agree to go into coalition again? I would want some MAJOR concessions given the inevitable punishment at the end of the term.

I had always vote LIbDems before, but switched to Green this time (for the general election). As I am in a massive Tory area, my vote doesn't "count" anyway.

This was for these reasons:

1. I felt betrayed that the LDs didn't insist on a PR referendum and instead agreed to AV which didn't have a hope in hell as it was too complicated. I also felt betrayed on tuition fees to a lesser extent.

2. I didn't like how they had gone right as I am a left of centre LD supporter.

3. I do not like Clegg now I know him. He has no backbone and no actual beliefs.

4. When I did the "who shall I vote for" things on various websites, for the first time LD did not come up and instead my views were represented by the Green and Labour to an extent. The manefesto was also wishywashy.

Persp I'm one who joined the libdems this weekend. It was partly a need to join someone/anyone to protest against austerity (I looked at Greens as well), partly because I was horrified to see what happened to them - I think they're good for british politics & partly because a friend sent me a link to their constitution & it felt something I could embrace & get behind.

My eldest son is very severely disabled, he'll be an adult in 2 years entirely reliant on social care, and today his future looks very bleak. I feel getting behind the libdems is doing something towards building a better future for him as well.

It wasn't about cost that I had a problem with in terms of 'realism' Boulevard. It was more about the reality of some policies in practice and the knock on consequences of them.

No, they didn't. Went to the Conservatives.

Tanith: I'd be interested to know - did Labour keep the council seat, despite the lack of campaigning? We've had a lot of council seats fall to the Tories round these parts.

You make a lot of good points redtoothbrush but I do want to point out that the Lib Dem manifesto of 2010 was the only party's that was fully costed out to the extent that the figures actually added up (amazingly for a manifesto). I think. Have not searched to confirm.

We were very sensitive to the charge that we were a bunch of cuddly idealists with no idea about the real world. Oh, to turn back the clock to the days when that was the worst thing people thought about us!

All three members of your local labour party were probably off campaigning in a seat that was actually winnable!

And also, if the Labour/Lib Dems knew they weren't going to win but that UKIP were gaining on Conservatives, they might have quietly decided to run a low-key campaign and let the anti-UKIP vote coalesce on one party.

Sorrytodisturbyou: that doesn't seem to have worried the Conservative and UKIP candidates. I may live in a strongly Conservative constituency, but I also said I live on a council estate: an area that has always been a lone Labour seat on the Council.

We've never had a Conservative round here before and he was actually treated with courtesy and a good deal of discussion.

No sign of Labour or LibDems, though. Not even posters in windows, which was really strange!