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Politics

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

An open letter to everyone who voted Conservative

557 replies

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 07:19

To everyone who voted conservative yesterday,

I hope you’re happy. Actually that’s a lie, I really don’t. But before you sit smugly down and give yourself a big pat on the back I’d like to ask you a few questions.

Do you think you haven’t benefitted from the system you are currently trying to break down? As a child, did you ever go to hospital? Have you had an education? Did you ever use a library? Have you ever been on a bus? If so, you have benefited from a system which subsidises facilities with taxes. And now you have, you are willing to take it away from everyone after you. Correct me if I’m wrong but that doesn’t seem very fair. You cannot have socialism and a support system when you need it but then be unwilling to support it for other people.

Now if you are someone who has used the private sector more than public services then I also want to know a few things. If you went to private school, or used private medical care as a child, did you pay for it yourself? Now I’m not asking if your parents paid for it, but you personally. I’m guessing the answer is no. So can you genuinely say you worked hard to get these privileges? No baby earns the right to an education. No child works hard to be born into a particular family who can afford healthcare. So why do you think one person is more deserving than another? If you value working hard and getting on how can you see this as fair? Do you really want to live in a world where children are deemed more worthy of education and healthcare based on what family they come from?

If you are someone who uses a lot of private, who are you? Are you one of the 1% who are currently getting richer? If so, are you ok with the fact that your benefit is someone else’s misery, someone’s poverty, someone’s lack of care? Are you ok with the fact that while you got a pay rise 900,000 people had to go to food banks because they literally didn’t have enough money to feed themselves to survive? Do you really believe that you work harder than these people?

If you aren’t one of these few people benefitting from this system then why have you voted for it? Conservatives use rhetoric of working hard and fairness but this is simply not the reality. If you start life without a lot, to get out of that is hard. “Success” stories are pinned up to show that if you work hard you get somewhere. But they are stories because they are anomalies. To come from a background of little education or money and to get a career you want is not the common way, and you can’t do it without a benefit system. We do not live in a system where if you work hard you get somewhere, the system the conservatives are creating means that if you start off well off you stay that way. Because someone who goes to a private school with tiny class sizes and one on one help does not have to work as hard as someone at an underachieving state school with over worked underpaid staff and huge classes. They just don’t.

Now if you are either one of these types of people you have to question whether you really do believe in what you have voted for. Because in voting conservative you are saying you are happy with the last 5 years. You are endorsing food banks. You are endorsing cutting care for the elderly and the mentally ill. You are endorsing a party where over half the MPs voted against gay marriage. You are saying yes to the NHS being privatised. You are saying you are happy with people being put off education based not on ability or passion but by money. You are saying yes to victimising the poor and disabled and scapegoating people based on where they come from. You are saying that you are ok with the incredible inequality in our country today and you are saying you want more of it.

I do not wish poverty on anyone. It is a cruel and harsh life. But what I do wish for you is that you at least experience it. If not first hand, that you witness the harsh trapping reality that is poverty. The gruelling cycle that doesn’t allow a parent to feed their children. That doesn’t allow for parents to feed themselves. And that you see that this is people who are working. People with jobs. And if they aren’t I hope you see that a life on benefits is not the picnic people make it out to be. Nobody wants to be on benefits. Maybe if you see this you will see what you have voted for.

And if you are ok with all of this then you make me sick. I can’t put it any other way. I am so ashamed to come from a country where this is apparently what the majority think. That the majority of people are too selfish to accept any form of tax rise to support those in our society who need help makes me so incredibly sad. Truly you should be ashamed of yourself that you can so heartlessly put yourself first and not see the consequences. I hope that in the next 5 years you fully appreciate what you did yesterday. I hope you know what you have supported and I hope one day you feel guilty. Because I am scared of what the next 5 years will bring and you should be too.

OP posts:
clam · 10/05/2015 11:46

Grin Quint

wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:45

If we look at the third top reason for Foodbanks referral - sanctions.
They have been brought in by this government.

People are sanctioned if they fail to meet the targets the Job Centre impose on them. They can have devastating effects on those who receive them, (homelessness, ill health and even death in some cases), and so you would hope they are being applied fairlym and with evidence that they work overall.

Are they? No. The evidence - if you care to look, is that sanctions cause massive hardship, and there is no evidence they work to improve things for anyone.

Sanctions are applied unfairly. As this whistleblower reports, Job Centre workers have targets to get people on sanctions, and people are sometime set up to fail so they can reach their targets.

See also A Selection of Especially Stupid Benefit Sanctions if you want a brief overview to give you an idea, or for more detail see this report commissioned by several UK churches, which is well worth a read.

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:44

Almost nobody wants to claim benefits.

Oh come on, that is not true at all.

There are many people who need benefits, either through illness or injury, or a change in circumstances, and we are we should be proud that we live in a country where this is available.

That's not what I meant, obviously. And yes, we should be proud that social security is available. Unfortunately, it is being attacked.

However there are some people (and it is a small percentage) who claim benefits for no other reason than because they don't like the alternative - working for a living.

Yes, it is a very small percentage. The DWP estimates this at about < 5% of claimants for JSA and even less for Disability allowance.

So it's a complete red herring to talk about people 'languishing' on claimants, as if its a big social problem, when we spend hundreds of billions bailing out banks, billions on war and the war machine, millions giving MPs 'allowances' to spend on champagne, etc. etc.

OP posts:
Whatthebobbins · 10/05/2015 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparklingbrook · 10/05/2015 11:37

Apologies for moan-this is in the right topic. Didn't notice. Grin

wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:37

MozzchopsThirty nice anecdotal evidence about foodbanks there. Let's look at some actual figures from those on the front line shall we?

This chart - from this report on food banks by the Trussel Trust shows that foodbanks said that the top major significant factors driving demand at food banks are:

  1. Low income
  2. Administrative delays in receiving benefits
  3. Benefit sanctions
  4. Debt
  5. Stopping of Employment Support Allowance
An open letter to everyone who voted Conservative
MrsCookieMonster · 10/05/2015 11:37

OP, The NHS is already being privatised. This started to happen under Labour and continued at an accelerated pace under the coalition. After five more years, the NHS will be unrecognisable
I am so sick of reading stuff like this on MN and elsewhere. There was no accelerated pace, the labour government privatised more of the NHS than the coalition did and that is a fact. Remember PFI that has crippled hospitals (I know it was introduced by John Majors government but it was only used on a wide scale basis by labour), was this not a version of privatisation i.e. companies getting profits from loaning to NHS trusts at ridiculous rates.

The comment made re foodbank use increase due to availability is not utter rubbish but of course it is not the only reason for the increase in the use of foodbanks and probably not even the major reason but it does explain part of the increase in use. The coalition govt would at least allow agencies to refer to foodbanks which was not allowed under the last labour govt as they did not want to encourage the use of them.

The 'bedroom tax' is not in theory unfair;

  • It is already in place in the private sector
  • the whole theory of social housing is that the people most in need should have the housing and if you have a mother whose children have all left home and she is living in a 4 bed house this should go to a young family. It is sad that an older person would have to leave their home and move somewhere smaller but I don't understand how socialists can disagree with this as it is the whole basis of social housing. I do agree it is currently not fair because I think there should have been some concessions;
  • If you have a disability or a disabled child you should be allowed an additional bedroom
  • You should only be charged the subsidy if you declined a smaller property 2 times as there is a shortage of 1 bed properties and it is not fair for people to be charged if they cannot get a smaller property.

I know you say you do not vote labour but as labour is the only other viable majority party I can only assume you would not be posting that there will be poverty, suicide etc for the next 5 years and telling people who voted for them that they make you sick if they had gotten a majority.

IsabellaofFrance · 10/05/2015 11:36

Almost nobody wants to claim benefits.

Oh come on, that is not true at all.

There are many people who need benefits, either through illness or injury, or a change in circumstances, and we are we should be proud that we live in a country where this is available.

However there are some people (and it is a small percentage) who claim benefits for no other reason than because they don't like the alternative - working for a living.

QuintShhhhhh · 10/05/2015 11:35

She will send him ecologically grown carnations and hope he will sneeze? Wink

HarryLimeFoxtrot · 10/05/2015 11:35

Why is voting Tory perceived as being a worse decision than not voting at all? Confused

I'm glad we have a secret ballot. The attacks on people I've seen on MN because of who they voted for are depressing.

Guirado · 10/05/2015 11:33

I can't believe that we're being lectured to by Green supporters.

How do you think Natalie Bennet would fare when Putin starts flexing his muscles.

Get real.

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:32

Horsemaid-

I do think that many have been mislead. It's a statistical fact, for example, that many British people are utterly misinformed when it comes to certain figures such as immigration, fraud, crime, etc.:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-public-wrong-about-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html

People think we spend a great deal on JSA claimants. The truth is that JSA claimants about to a tiny portion of the budget and more than half of the social security bill goes towards pensions.

--
But I think the real problem is that because of wealth inequality and social and class divisions, many people are simply not aware of the difficulties which the other half go through.

If you live a comfortable life in the shires, you're rarely going to come in to struggling families or social security claimants, or insecure tenancies. You have the security of a house. A well paid job. - who ARE these other people?

OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 10/05/2015 11:31

Election Thread quota now exceeded-surely?

Whatthebobbins · 10/05/2015 11:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wigglylines · 10/05/2015 11:28

Horsemadbird really? Making some assumptions there aren't you?

I didn't vote Labour.

QuintShhhhhh · 10/05/2015 11:27

Lack of opportunities?

Opportunities are never really given you, you need to seek them out.

Funny how some see an opportunity to spend their lives chained to trees, or squat in buildings, but not the opportunity to put an effort into getting some education and find a job to earn your keep.

Horsemadbird · 10/05/2015 11:27

Err... maybe because they had a lack of opportunities?

Almost all of them were MC, private educated twats, actually. Much like the present Leftie lot.

Horsemadbird · 10/05/2015 11:26

Almost nobody wants to claim benefits.

Oh purlease.

Horsemadbird · 10/05/2015 11:26

And wiggly - you won't see it but it is true.

Your attitude is precisely, completely and utterly why this country rejected Labour.

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:25

Except on signing on day when they were all busy collecting the giros provided for them by the very people they spent their lives despising.

Err... maybe because they had a lack of opportunities?

Do you think people prefer to claim social security, or prefer to have a decent, well-paid job?

Whilst we're talking about myths, I think this is a Tory myth that needs to be dispelled. 99% of people claiming social security would much rather not be.

Have you ever claimed? It is humiliating and doesn't pay enough to survive in any case. Almost nobody wants to claim benefits.

OP posts:
Horsemadbird · 10/05/2015 11:23

wigglylines.

You're right. Dear lord how could I have been so blind? We have all been horribly misled by the Tory press Sad.

Millions of highly educated people who run successful business, hold down high powered jobs aswell as ordinary decent folk have all been misled.

Thank you wiggly, thank you for showing the millions of us the true way and the light.

Viviennemary · 10/05/2015 11:23

It's because it's so hard to get our heads round the fact that people have voted for a government which will bring in policies which will cause mass suffering and even death for many, disproportionately some of the most vulnerable in our society.

That is exactly why people didn't vote Labour. That is total nonsense. I know an elderly frail lady suffering from a chronic disability. She is well looked after financially under the system. And rightly so. I don't think she'll lose out. But throwing money in tax credits at people who have made a lifestyle choice not to work or only work a few hours has got to stop. I have been told it already has under Universal Credit. Which Miliband said he was going to keep anyway. The truth is Labour had no answers and that's why they didn't get in.

blacksunday · 10/05/2015 11:22

My feelings are expressed perfectly by what wigglylines just wrote above.

OP posts:
QuintShhhhhh · 10/05/2015 11:22

This is a democracy. Rather than berating people for the views they hold, in what is still a free country where you are free to have an opinion, why not berate the 34% who truly did not give a fuck and did not vote?

I cant vote, I have lived here for over 20 years, and I don't have the right to vote because I am not from an EU country. But if I could vote, I would have voted conservatives.

Not because I don't care about the poor, but because I do.
I am still shocked, as a foreigner, to see a country where the divide between rich and poor is so big, but the truth is you do get rewards for working hard to earn a living under the conservatives. I don't know what Labour was thinking when they built up an unsustainable benefits system encouraging people to think they would always be cushioned by the state, that they could chose to not work, not care about education, and eventually not bother to do your best to secure your own and your childrens future through a mutually benefitting "work and earn" system. I think the conservatives is working hard to change this mindset, get rid of benefit loopholes allowing people not entitled to benefits getting them. This and tax and fraud loopholes will put the country on a good and even keel. I think there are many small businesses and sole traders all across the country, from plumbers to builders, who benefit from conservative politics, and not just the rich.

ShellyBoobs · 10/05/2015 11:21

continue to believe the majority of Tory voters have been misled, because the alternative is that you understand what you've just done, and that's much, much worse.

This epitomises the downfall of the left.

Sheer pig-headed unwillingness to believe that anyone can have a different opinion to them without being thick or ignorant.

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