Are Scots truly that Left Wing?

"It was always an extra."

This was highlighted about the oil revenues throughout the referendum campaign.

We would have for about a month if I remember rightly then we'd be at the polls.

That would have been exciting, a brand new political landscape, New parties and movements emerging.

It still makes me sad and angry we're not going to see all that but onwards and upwards!

iHAVE, blowin has picked up on my point that you missed; if we had voted Yes, then right now - while oil prices are low - we would still be part of the UK, and hence "protected" by those broad shoulders pooling and sharing our resources, so no different whatsoever to how we are now. Indy wasn't planned for another year, who knows where oil prices will be by then?

And who says we'd have had an SNP gvt in an indy Scotland anyway?

That is not true regarding the oil money paying for everything. It was always an extra.

"The SNP and UKIP are like chalk and cheese on every issue."

Yep, not a shock.

"I wonder how sentiment may have been different if Scotland had voted for independence based on the fairy tales of Scottish oil revenues which have since collapsed."

Scotland would not currently be independent just now if it had been a Yes majority last September. It would have happened in 2016....a lot can change with oil prices in that time!

No, Hirples, as a lot of the money SNP intended to use for funding was based on Oil revenues which are not looking too great atm.

If we had voted Yes, we would still be negotiating with rUK, and our economic position would be exactly the same as it is right now, whatever happens to oil prices in the future.

And, what Niceguy2 says:

"I wonder how sentiment may have been different if Scotland had voted for independence based on the fairy tales of Scottish oil revenues which have since collapsed. With no Westminster to blame, I wonder how popular they would be then?"

If you think DC and DM's monetary plans are sketchy/scary you only have to ponder the SNP's 'back of an envelope based on Oil prices' economic model prior to the IndyRef. I know Oil prices will go back up over time, but, thank Christ we didn't go down that route...

and, some of the 'free' stuff aint so great.
My dd got her 'free' school lunch (dint of being a P3).
She had: a sprout (just the one!), a small tinned potato and 1/2 a 'burger'.
I have been waiting over a year for a simple operation - my hospital evaded the waiting list targets by taking me off the list -simples.
My children's school is falling apart - there are no supplies.

I know none of this is life-or-death and will be the same in England, but SNP Scotland aint the land of milk and honey that Eck and Nick would like you to think.

And the divisions in my village re the IndyRef will take a long time to heal.

If there is lots of English resentment at the SNP vote in the General Election that will suit some MSP's very well.

It will be divisive and stir up nationalist sentiment.

It has been made clear that Independence is still very much an aim of the SNP, despite a clear NO vote by the Scottish people.

seeker33 you misunderstand the 'free personal care' policy in Scotland.

People in Scotland do still have to sell their homes to pay for the 'hotel' and other costs of residential care.

Why include this thread in your analysis Stacey, when it doesn't do those things you say it does? This isn't 'other threads'.

Museumum - nothing wrong with wanting to be more Left than Labour. Is that the impression people are giving?

But how can you uncouple the SNP from the quest for Independence? It's like uncoupling UKIP from the quest to leave Europe. A person might like lots of UKIP policies but not want to leave Europe - they would be mad to vote UKIP if that was the case. It's the same with the SNP. At a push, you could make an exception for Holyrood elections, but in a GE, it is a big issue. Yes, Westminster needs to accept the representatives who are voted in, but that would be very difficult given the SNP stance on the Union. Whoever gets in will need to try, but it's going to be difficult.

What's so wrong with wanting to be a bit further left than new labour which frankly is almost centre-right these days?
That there are few alternatives to the SNP is not the fault of those seeking a left-wing party. The Greens are doing well right now and more power to them. The SSP is maybe a bit too far left for my liking. The SNP pitch their right/left balance at a point that appeals to many people in Scotland, this has nothing to do with their stance on independence.

What I can't understand is the Westminster/BBC obsession with the issue. If we are truly 'better together' then Westminster needs to accept and work with whoever the Scottish constituencies send to Westminster to represent them.

It's easy to be the popular boy when you can take credit for all the good things you do and blame Westminster for everything you dislike.

I wonder how sentiment may have been different if Scotland had voted for independence based on the fairy tales of Scottish oil revenues which have since collapsed. With no Westminster to blame, I wonder how popular they would be then?

well the Scot dont pay prescription charges and dont get kicked out of their houses when elderly. (40,000 are said to in England)

That would seem at least to be lib/left wing compared to Camerooney and his chums.

This election may well be nastier than most because there are so many parties with real influence on the result (no Lord Sutch though)

No I'm not confused , it's you who cannot read . I wrote " this and other threads "

Anyway back to the topic.

Do people who don't want independence really plan to vote for the SNP (because of their other policies) without worrying about the consequences of another potential referendum on independence?

I believe the thinking is that:

• SNP will never win enough seats at WM to somehow force independence through - it is off the agenda for the time being at WM.

• Scotland tends to be mostly ignored by WM, which is very SE centric. It also dies not represent Scots. We have 1 conservative MP, yet are ruled by Conservative government.

All the big parties are based in London, and to stay in power they have to please the maximum number of people, naturally due to population densities they concentrate on policies benefiting SE England.

SNP/Scottish Greens/ SSP are Scottish parties based in Scotland so may be seen to be more likely to work for Scots. Of these three, only the SNP is really likely to be able to win a significant number if seats.

It is also relevant that although the Scots did not vote for independence, it is likely that they would have voted for Home Rule (everything bar defence and foreign policy devolved). There were promises made before the referendum of all the new powers that would be devolved. These promises are not being kept, thus many Scots see sending a large SNP contingent to WM as a way of "holding their feet to the fire".

Thus many people who do not support independence, or who do not support the SNP will be voting tactically for what they perceive to be strong representation for Scotland at WM.

I strongly suspect that in the Scottish elections, the SNPs will have rather less of the vote, as we have PR in Scotland there is less need for tactical voting.

Jackie im not sure why you think people are labour plants? that's certainly not me I can assure you.

wellthatsit I would agree with you - I couldn't vote for them no matter how good their policies are because I don't want independence. as it happens I don't agree with the majority of their policies so I wouldn't vote for them anyway.

Stacey I don't see anyone attacking any of the politicians personally.

Stacey, I don't think anyone has slagged off Jim Murphy's wife and kids, or mentioned Nicola's childlessness on this thread. Come to think about it, nothing much has been said about anyone's private lives or appearance. We've mostly been discussing policies, taxation, whether the Scots are left leaning or not, and a bit about the referendum. Plus whether or not we like the SNP.

You seem to be confused.

Back to the topic, it is interesting that those who say they will vote for the SNP based on the policies are also Yes supporters and vice versa. It is true that however good their policies are, I couldn't vote for them because I don't want independence. The independence issue is too big to ignore.

Do people who don't want independence really plan to vote for the SNP (because of their other policies) without worrying about the consequences of another potential referendum on independence?

How clever of you to spot I was being sarcastic , well done . And how interesting that you think that my comments are directed at you.

I note that when people disagree with you, you call them names ( chippy , defensive ) . So much easier than actually disagreeing with their points

What a shame that so many comments on this and other threads are about the politicians private lives or appearance , rather than their track records or policies .

Yes You might disagree with Jim Murphy's style , but don't slag off his wife or kids. I understand that some people may not like / approve of the fact that Nicola is childless, but don't attack her on that ground - she doesn't use it as a campaign point . It's a bit daily Fail

jackieharris, using the phrase labour plant illustrates my point - it is a paranoid comment, a 'them and us' stance. Nobody is a labour plant, people are just expressing their opinions.

And StaceyandTracey, likewise, your response (which I assume is mostly directed at me) is typically sweeping, sarcastic and, quite frankly, defensive (chippy).

Rightly or wrongly,I have come to associate this type of reaction with the SNP and it has completely put me off them, despite the fact I agree with some of their policies. The bullying culture and strident rhetoric makes the party seem very untrustworthy to me. (Plus I am not pro-independence, which has to be a huge factor in whether or not to vote for them, obviously. Although some people seem to think it isn't, which I can't understand).

Also, not supporting SNP doesn't automatically mean anyone supports the Tories or Labour or Liberal. I don't think there is ever a time when I have said that one party is wholeheartedly 'for me'. It is always a bit of a compromise, and I wish more people were willing to try the consensus politics that other countries espouse, also based on compromise.

STIDW, yes, the SNP and UKIP are streets apart in terms of policies. What I meant was the reasons for their rise in popularity are similar, albeit coming from different political places. It comes from dissatisfaction, which I guess is similar to what you are saying about it being a reaction to a right wing government.

No , Scots aren't " truly that left wing " . It's all relative - if you are looking from the far right , it might seem that way .

I love the sweeping racist generalisations on this thread - " all Scots are poor and have a chip on their shoulder " . Yes that's right , there are no landowners , aristocracy or rich people here, we all live in tenements like in Trainspotting and vote SNP because we don't know any better .

Yes , we are all just making a " gesture about nationalism " , we are too uneducated to have opinions about policy issues . We don't care about the economy , defence, education or the NHS.

Just as well we can go to university for free then, isn't it ?

And isn't it shocking the way they are letting women into politics these days - Nicola Sturgeon should really know her place . How dare the scots seek to have any influence on UK policy - after all, the english have never sought to influence anything in scotland , have they ?

Slightly off point, but there is a public enquiry being conducted looking into the issue of the trams. And at the end of last year Nicola Sturgeon granted it the power to compel witnesses to attend.

I'm not staunch SNP or any other political party. Having lived here for nearly forty years I consider myself a naturalised Scot, but I was born in England (as were my parents and grandparents) and lived in two other countries before arriving here. I’m not sure what “truly left” means, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if many Scots voted SNP because of their left wing policies even if every other party was equally pro independence. YouGov recent profiling shows the Scots are left to the rest of the UK on almost every issue;

yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/22/scotland-are-left-rest-uk-almost-every-issue/

The SNP and UKIP are like chalk and cheese on every issue.

From an impartial prospective the rise of the SNP was predicable. A Scottish film maker made a short film which was shown on TV around the same time as devolution and predicted the election of a right wing UK government would lead to the rise of calls for Scottish independence. Scottish Labour is collapsing because of its decision to work together with the Tories in the Better Together campaign and its failure to prevent the SNP from establishing itself as the Westminster reforming party.

The UK main parties act as though we still have majority governments when we don't which has brought about instability, partisanship, constant electioneering and bickering. The alternative that works in some other countries and requires more skill is minority government which adopts a consensual approach, negotiates and makes concessions so they are more likely to remain in office and make headway with policy agenda.

I know a local person who has got a very nice job out of the V&A project so don't think these labour plant posters have much of a clue what they are talking about.

There is an element of small c conservatism in Scottish culture eg law & order but we are more left wing when it comes to things like community/society/looking out for each other. I sometimes wonder if this is to do with Scots living in flats/tenements whereas the English are more likely to live in houses.