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Politics

Scottish Labour seems to be imploding

81 replies

AgentProvocateur · 25/10/2014 10:03

Johann Lamont resigns because she feels there's too much interference from London, and the Scottish party should be autonomous. The irony!

The ScotLabs are in a policy void, and are a party of political pygmies. There is no obvious successor to Johann Lamont, who was a particularly uninspiring, bitter leader who was more interested in putting down the SNP than putting forward any ideas. They've lost their core support, and I think they are in terminal decline.

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JackSkellington · 08/02/2015 00:14

They've definitely moved too far away from their roots, and Murphy's frantic attempts to tell us that they support devolution and so on are embarrassing. I voted Labour years ago but never would again.

Toadinthehole · 31/01/2015 04:05

I think they've been dying for a long time. The grass roots party atrophied long ago.

JackSkellington · 24/01/2015 12:40

I know this thread is a bit dormant just now, but Murphy seems to be popping up in the papers every other day with another clanger/bizarre statement. Another by-election lost to the SNP yesterday too. I genuinely think Scottish Labour is finished, or very close to it.

FannyFifer · 23/11/2014 13:59

Tom Watson MP & Ivan Lewis MP are currently having a Twitter spat over Scottish leadership candidates.

JackSkellington · 23/11/2014 12:09

And now Gordy's standing down come May too. Sinking ship?

I second FannyFifer, glad to see the back of him. And with Murphy at the helm, that ship is only going to keep on sinking!

I saw the crowds at the Hydro, I'm hoping we send an overwhelming SNP majority to Westminster.

OldLadyKnows · 22/11/2014 22:52

You were there, weren't you? I followed on livestream (but it kept falling over) and Twitter, sounds like a fabulous atmosphere! Well over 92k members now. Grin May will be sooooo interesting...

FannyFifer · 22/11/2014 22:13

He saw the Hydro today & shat it.

Good riddance. Another one bites the dust.

OldLadyKnows · 22/11/2014 21:36

And now Gordy's standing down come May too. Sinking ship?

Toadinthehole · 09/11/2014 07:37

Aren't the SNP's heartlands mostly former Tory territory? I'm thinking Angus, Aberdeenshire, Perthshire and so on.

OOAOML · 08/11/2014 10:02

I'm pretty sure rules were set around votes of no confidence and dissolving parliament - there have been times I've felt the coalition was shaky and clearly you would have to do something if it fell apart totally. I see the Lib Dems trying to separate themselves more, but think it is too late.

Problem with the SNP abstaining from votes that only concern Scotland, is that because of Barnett consequentials there are many votes that initially don't look as if they concern Scotland but they do (also Wales and Northern Ireland) because of spending/funding implications.

I think the SNP will do well in some current Labour seats, but not so well in the former Tory seats. I would actually (and I know that on politics threads I do keep on going on about the referendum) hope that people in Scotland can move on from voting based on independence politics, but the vote is still very recent and a lot of people are feeling raw (on both sides).

I'll probably take annual leave on the Friday. I went into work the day after the referendum after sitting up all night (and not sleeping properly for several nights before, and doing lots of door knocking in the last week of the campaign) and it was definitely a challenge by mid-afternoon.

Toadinthehole · 08/11/2014 05:19

I understand that the SNP's policy is to abstain from votes on laws that concern only areas of the UK outside Scotland. A confidence and supply agreement would only concern matters that affect the whole UK, although there could be issues with specific budget allocations to individual ministries as I understand funding is allocated to Scotland in a block.

You raise an interesting point about the scheduling of Westminster elections. While I understand there is a plan to make GEs ridgedly every 4 years, if Parliament can't form a government, I'd be surprised if the Queen didn't retain the power to dissolve Parliament and require a fresh election.

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 08/11/2014 03:40

I don't see the SNP at WM entering into any formal coalition with anyone, esp as they already have a longstanding policy of not voting on matters which affect only the rUK, not Scotland.

As I understand it (and I could be wrong) it was fairly recently agreed that WM elections could only be held in fixed terms, (5 years?) so no second GE could be held short of that time.

Glad you can take AL, I'll be sitting up all night! (But am SE, so no problems there Grin )

Toadinthehole · 08/11/2014 03:05

The 2015 GE is going to be fascinating. The great significance to Scotland is that the Westminster parliament is the only body clearly capable of legislating for a) Scottish independence or b) a binding referendum on the subject or c) devo-max, federalism, home rule etc. As an aside, I expect some readers will disagree with my view, and as I am very interested in Scots constitutional law I would be interested in those reasons.

I'm only surprised that it has taken this long for the SNP to overtake Labour in the Westminster polls. Even twenty years ago, they were making a better fist than Labour at running stuff at local level.

Kudos also to Alex Salmond for taking the burning of his effigy in Lewes in the appropriate spirit.

I think the Lib Dems will hold at least 3 seats in Scotland. They will hold Orkney and Shetland, and Ross, Skye and Lochaber because the incumbents' majorities are big enough to survive a cull in vote (Fife North East is more vulnerable because Ming Campbell is not standing). They will also hold Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk because the SNP are too far back.

UKIP won't have a big impact in Scotland. Their share of the Euro vote reflects, as always, a signal to politicians rather than an indication of who voters would prefer in government.

However, the big question is undoubtably how many Labour seats the SNP take. This is one of the major questions of the election. I can't help thinking the SNP vote will come back a bit, but who knows? The other question is what effect UKIP will have south of the border. They are clearly able to take votes off all three parties; but probably the Tories more than either Labour or the Lib Dems. I predict that the Lib Dems will hang onto far more of their southern English seats than is generally predicted. With about one exception, the Tories are the challengers for these seats, but UKIP will cut into the Tory vote more than the Lib Dem vote, and Labour's vote will be squeezed. UKIP, for all their support, are simply heading for the same problem that the Liberals have traditionally faced: plenty of support, but not enough to finish first except in a few places. I imagine they might hang onto their by-election gains, the seat where Farage stands, and one other place. Given the unpopularity of the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, I don't think a repetition of the current coalition (or indeed a government with Tories in it) is likely.

So the result I'm expecting at this point is something like this:

Labour 310 odd
Conservative 260 odd
SNP 35 odd
Lib Dem 25 odd
NI unionist parties 9
NI other 8
Plaid Cymru 3
UKIP 4
Green 1

Result: hung parliament: no single party with 50%+1 of the seats.

The obvious outcome here is a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. However, Labour and Lib Dem numbers could easily be lower and the SNP's higher. The SNP ought to be thinking very carefully about what their strategy should be. They will presumably want, at least, further devolution of powers to Scotland and, at most, a second independence referendum. However, their demands will be ignored unless they are able to provide something in return. I expect they would prefer this to be a confidence and supply arrangement to Labour. A formal coalition (or indeed any sort of deal with the Tories) could result in them getting caught up in the mess of a government they do not control, as has happened to the Lib Dems (and I add at this point how very disappointed in how despite having fully two thirds of the Tory vote they have let themselves get pushed around). The other risk they have is either demanding too little and getting blamed for that, or demanding too much, resulting in a second general election being held, and being blamed for holding up the democratic process.

Because I'm in the southern hemisphere, I will be able to see the results come in in the morning. I will probably take annual leave from work.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/11/2014 21:02

I'd imagine so, except hasn't Labour promised to abolish the HoL like Ive not heard that before

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 02/11/2014 19:47

Next stop, HoL? Services rendered, and all that.

FannyFifer · 02/11/2014 19:26

Wondered where Darling had disappeared to, interesting.

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 02/11/2014 19:20

And now Darling is standing down as MP come May.

claig · 02/11/2014 10:51

Thanks, I hope so

OOAOML · 02/11/2014 10:38

Thanks Claig your contributions are always noticeable. Personally I don't form my opinions based on the Daily Mail, but I'm sure someone will find it useful.

claig · 02/11/2014 08:39

Damien Mcride on Jim Murphy

"If he succeeds, you can bet on major changes to Scotland’s powers within the Union, and – by extension – for the powers held by Wales, London and the English regions. If he fails, the Union will simply break up.

With all that hanging on the job it’s easier to see why he wants it and, perhaps, there is a further prize in his sights.

If he can run Scotland without Miliband’s help, why not the rest of the country, too? ‘When I came round Buckingham Palace,’ Murphy said of his marathon run, ‘there was no sign saying finish: so I just kept running.’

With his single-minded determination, who knows where Slim Jim’s race will end?"

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2817346/As-Ed-faces-disaster-north-border-Labour-s-mafioso-stabbing-Scotland-makes-Macbeth-look-like-Mrs-Brown-s-Boys-death-Union.html

He would never win the public's votes across teh country. The mask of whispering Jim Murphy with his faux-sincerity and petulant irritation would soon slip and what lies underneath would soon be revealed.

OOAOML · 31/10/2014 13:34

Will PM you Fanny. 'Tis someone retiring.

FannyFifer · 31/10/2014 13:15

What MSP is stepping down?

OOAOML · 31/10/2014 13:07

I really don't get why Nick Clegg sold out so cheaply. He knew he was going to have to give up on key pledges (made when people assumed there was little chance of the Lib Dems actually being expected to deliver them) but for a few days he had quite a lot of bargaining power, and surely he could have got a better deal? I'm particularly surprised he accepted a vote on AV, which he must have known wasn't going to be a popular PR option.

Obviously I'm against his policies on independence Wink but agree Patrick Harvie is doing a brilliant job. I'm unlikely to vote Green in the near future though. And def not SSP, although that wouldn't have been on the cards for me anyway.

Labour stronghold here, but the MSP is stepping down (which is a shame, have quite a lot of dealings with him via parent council and he is good) so I think they will struggle with the changed political landscape and the fact that the new candidate has a track record in local politics that is, how shall we say, not likely to votes on a personal basis.

FannyFifer · 31/10/2014 12:11

I'm only a young thing compared to you old gimmers. Wink

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 31/10/2014 10:50

Whippersnapper! [shakes walking stick] Grin

I know what you mean about Nick Clegg, he must have scunnered so many people with the decisions he's made. Patrick Harvie is doing a brilliant job for the Greens, and it'll either be them or SSP who get my list vote in 2016. I'm in what has been a Labour stronghold, but with events unfolding as they are, who knows come May?