with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

Read abut the blockade of Palestine after WWII. The Jews were treated inhumanely by us and I don't blame them for defending themselves now.

it's not only your responsibility MyFairy - it is all our responsibility.

Surely you do you have an opinion on the situation in Israel/Palestine? Or you wouldn't be on this thread?

Where do you air your other views? MN? Anywhere else?
Do you take action or have a voice about anything going on in the world ever?

You want me to be vocal? How? Where? On Facebook/Twitter? No fucking way. It's not where I air my political, religious or personal views, it's where I chat with my friends and remain in contact with people from abroad. I don't blog and I'm not a journalist or news reporter, so my views will never be published in mainstream media.

Why is it my responsibility to air my views just because I was born to a Jewish mother?!

Nobody has said anything about spending 'all your time' being vocal about something, simply that Jews SHOULD be vocal about it. It is a massive human rights issue and it is being done IN THE NAME OF JEWS!

I was pretty vocal about the Iraq war because it was a human rights issue committed in my name, I hang my head in shame about it actually.

I wish Israel didn't exist, I think it makes my life and my childrens lives more dangerous, leads to extremism in the middle east and even worse, is funded by Western governments and companies.

I am ashamed that my country supports it and that I could be deemed to have anything at all to do with it because of the colour of my skin.

I'm not going to add too much more to this because I don't want to get sucked in to an argument - but I think this war will only end when Israel is wiped off the map by its enemies. It will never give up.

I also think the reason there is no intervention in Israel is to do with their backing from the USA, rather than people feeling sad for poor little Jews

Of course, ALL English people, while busily protesting against Israel, are protesting against Russia, Syria, China, Iraq, and all the states who commit humans rights abuses across the world.

ALL English women are busily protesting against the countries that abuse women's rights. Every single day for years and years.

No?

Then they should be ashamed of themselves.

An opinion is not the same thing as spending all your time bring vocal, and placing a particular obligation on someone because of their religion that you aren't placing on everyone else is prejudice. What exactly should Latara's Gran's neighbour be doing?

Why wouldn't a Jewish person, living in Britain or elsewhere, want to speak out about Israel and it's deplorable actions? Especially if it's not a religion/heritage issue! Why wouldn't you have an opinion about it? This issue has been ongoing and ever deteriorating my entire life and longer - how can I ignore it?

Why why wouldn't most people, regardless of their race or religion, with even a tiny degree of awareness of the situation want to speak out about it?

Because they think it's right?
Because they can't be arsed to form an opinion?
Because you don't even have to take sides to say "this sucks and is wrong let's stop it now?"
Because international pressure never lead to any change at all?
Because the Israelis's are backed by the USA and they can do what they want?
Because they don't believe that the Palestinian's Human Rights are abused and ignored every single day for years and years?

What exactly does it take for someone to say "this is nothing to do with me and further more I have no intention to go on holiday there so I have no opinion about it"?

I've never been to South Africa - did I speak out about apartheid? Yes of course I did. Guess you didn't Lilka? Nothing to do with you is it? So why would you have an opinion or voice about it?

I am pretty vocal about the British Empire actually.

As I am about womens rights, racial rights and anything else I feel strongly about.

Any Jew who can look at the reasons for Israel's conception and say 'not my problem' is shirking their responsibilities. As is anyone who calls themselves Catholics and takes no responsibilities for the actions of that religious group.

I wonder how much time you spent this last year speaking out and educating people about the atrocities committed by the British Empire? How many people have you educated? What are you (actively) doing about the legacy of Imperialism today? Don't shirk your obligations.

For example my Gran's Jewish neighbour who is a 90 yr old D Day veteran should not 'have to' be vocal about Israel's atrocities when he is an atheist Jew who knows nothing much about Israel in the first place!

Oh and by the way only my Gran will talk to him out of the entire block of flats. Guess why - because he's Jewish. This is in 21st century Britain!

Should Muslims then be vocal about being against Al-Qaeda just because they are Muslims too?

Of course not that doesn't make sense!

So Jews around the world should not have to be vocal about Israel's actions.

No it is not stupid, it is their responsibility like it is every white Americans responsibility to speak out about injustices from white people towards black people in America.

People have a different opinion on responsibility, but this is how I feel about it.

I am sick of reading pro-Israeli posts from my Jewish friends who have never been there, I am sick of reading things like 'all culture in Europe died in Auschwitz as if only Jewish people have any merit.

Israel was built as a Jewish state, if Jewish people don't like how it is behaving they need to speak out. Just like the Catholics should be speaking out about the actions of the Vatican and the awful behaviour of nuns and priests in the Catholic church.

You can wash your hands all you want, but its a bit much to assume nobody will judge you for it.

Killing all Palestinians because Israeli regime does not like Hamas is also bullshit. In fact it is a violation of international law.

Look into Israeli policies, you will see apartheid in action that's if you don't already see it.

Why is it every Jewish person's responsibility to speak out against Israel? That's so stupid. I think plenty of Jews living in Britain etc, would feel pretty offended at the idea that their religion/heritage somehow means they have an obligation to loudly speak/work against a country they've never been to and never will go to.

If peaceful Jewish people do not want to be judged on Israel they need to be a bit more vocal in their opinions about Israel, most of the Jews I know are pro-Israel.

I get your point re Jews not equaling Israelis.

HOWEVER the Israeli govt describes Israel as JEWISH state. The law in Israel incorporated Jewish laws as well as civil and common law, the nation anthem is sung in Hebrew and the Emblem of the state of Israel is a menorah (a symbol of Judaism since ancient times).

Attacking all Jews because of the actions of the Israeli government is horrible. It is bullshit, prejudiced bullshit, in the same way as demanding to know what lessons black people have learnt from slavery is prejudiced bullshit. Learning lessons is not what the victims of atrocities do, it's what the perpatrators do. The legacy of violence and aggression is "ours" (as in non-Jewish European).

And no, I don't support the actions of the Israeli government at all.

*war not way

ssd Again, you are conflating Zionism with Judaism. There are not one and the same. Perhaps it is useful to think before you attack an entire ethnicity based on the actions of the Israeli government over a land way.

It is bigger than defending their state though - there is no equality between different races/religions within Israel. Life in Israel is effectively a version of apartheid for Palestinians.

Israel is massively rich and backed by the USA - the Palestinians are largely poor, without power, money or wealthy backers. There is massive inequality.

I don't condone terrorism at all, but I do understand that people will fight back, however they can.

The Israeli settlement of the West Bank etc was entirely arrogant and antagonistic - they want it all for themselves and they just want the Palestinians to disappear. They won't. They can't. Would you?

Teh best article I ever read about this was by Daniel Finkelstein in The Times. As it is behind a pay wall, I will quote from it:

"...what happened to my grandmother shows the dangers of Mans inhumanity to Man and the need to avoid it. But that is not the only lesson it teaches. And not the only lesson Jews have learnt.

When the Nazis invaded Holland, and arrested my family in their home, and stole their property, and killed their friends, and destroyed their community, and put them on trains to go to death camps, they were able to do it because they had the army and the soldiers and the guns. They were able to do it because the Jews were defenceless. They were able to do it because speeches and books and ideas about liberty, for all their great truth and power, werent enough.

How could the Jews not have learnt that lesson? How could they not have learned it... when they went home to the East of Europe and found they couldnt live in their houses or reclaim their property or be safe with their neighbours? How could they not have learnt it sailing round and round the harbour because no country wanted to take them?

The Jews have learnt the same lesson as everyone else about humanity and compassion, and been as good and as fallible as anyone else when trying to show it. But we have also understood a harder, harsher truth. That we cannot rely on others to keep us safe. And Israel exists precisely because of this."