Why are ukip so bad?

How are they going to take the low paid out of taxation? And how are they going to save lots of tax payer money?
Also who are the chums?

I was never pro Clegg - the progressive climate change enthusiast.

I, like millions of others, voted UKIP last year when all the spinners and puppets mocked the people on their news shows and TV debates.

Raven, no policies that I've heard about, I have no idea what ukip plan to do if they ever get into power. But nth I don't think ukip themselves know what they plan to do should they ever get into power....

I'd have a pint of whatever claig's on, except I've got a pile of paperwork to get through in the morning...

'I'm sure you were all pro-Tory last time you were copying and pasting everywhere'

That was a different era - over 1 year ago.
But I, like millions of others, have had enough. The chums are not real conservatives.

Or was it pro Clegg? Either way you hadn't jumped on the UKIP bandwagon I don't think.

We don't yet know what their policies are. Remember that the last manifesto was written by a Conservative, whom Farage described as an "idiot". I don't think there are many "idiots" left in UKIP now.

UKIP want to take the low-paid out of taxation. They will save lots of our taxpayer money. The cronies, the chums and their charidees won't be able to waste it anymore, so they will be able to reduce taxes for everyone.

UKIP is full of ordinary people. They won't be squeezing the people. That is why the spinners and chums are in overdrive in a desperate attempt to stop the people's party. They know that their game is over.

UKIP will eventually end the Euro gravy train. As Farage said, they are "turkeys voting for Christmas", and there will no more presents from the public to the cronies and the chums. That is why they are all diving and ducking, clucking and chucking the kitchen sink at the people in an attempt to stop the people's party.

Claig are you on glue? I'm sure you were all pro-Tory last time you were copying and pasting everywhere.

Oh right. What do you mean ordinary people will be in power?

There are actual UKIP policies?!

Must be at least 6 threads on UKIP over the last month, & no-one has been able to find any policies. Lots of unpleasant things their candidates have said that apparently aren't the official line, & a 2010 manifesto that their leader has described as 'drivel', but nothing you could dignify with the name of 'policy'.

If UKIP actually reflected 'the people', the best thing we could do is handover to the dolphins & see if they could do a better job.

Also, I saw this:

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/crown-denies-farage-his-pint-but-ukip-leader-remains-unfazed-1.1795645

and thought of you.

Farage went for a pint in the historic (and v lovely) Crown Bar in Belfast. When they said he couldn't film there - note, not that he couldn't drink there, just not film - he went to the much less lovely and much more expensive Europa Hotel across the road.

Yeah. No spin here.

Y'see, claig, that's lovely oratory, but the actual UKIP policies, like a flat tax, are going to squeeze the lower and middle classes more.

And no-one's been exploiting a gravy train more than the UKIP MEPs, claiming their expenses wothout actually turning up to do their job

No more taxpayer subsidies to the landed aristocracy to erect "wind turbines" (rooftop or otherwise) on their estates.

Tomorrow's newspaper headlines
"Scandal of NHS chiefs' £166 million bonuses".

All of this type of thing will come to an end. Chums, charlies and bums will be out on their ears. No more squeezing the "squeezed middle" to pay for cronies and their schemes. Luvvies and the metropolitan elite will no longer be able to cheat. The gravy train will grind to a halt. The people will come first, not the puppets.

It is going to sweep the puppets out and give you and everyone else a voice. Ordinary people will be in power, no more puppets. Scams will end, spinners will no longer be listened to, public money will no longer be wasted by fat cats and cronies in phony charidees and publicly funded quangos.

Power for the people? I am 'the people' what is ukip going to do for me?

People seem to be totally misunderstanding what Fascism is because they think it is something to do with Hitler and xenophobia.

There is in fact a lot of fascist tendencies in politics today among mainstream parties.

Fascism is essentially defined by the close and wholly toxic alliance of the party and big business interests. Big business does what Government tells it to do. In return business gets monopoly control over markets and special favours. Government controls business and the economy - hence the term national socialism. Society becomes strictly stratified along class lines, there is a political elite and the very wealthy. the middle class is destroyed.

Fascism and Communism are enemies only because they want to achieve the same ends by different means. Control over the economy and over people's lives.

UKIP as others have said is libertarian. It is against communism and fascism. It wants power for the people. It does not want or seek big government.

UKIP terrifies all the other parties for this reason both left and right.

Notice that when UKIP say cut immigration they are racist, but when the Tories promise the same thing it is a wise and thoughtful decision.

Nope. Don't like the Tories, either. And I don't routinely read tabloids. I, like any others, form my opinions based on the things that people say. If what they say is racist, disablist, sexist or just plain bloody stupid, then I don't need a journalist to tell me what to think about that.

All over teh world, people want change. In India's election, millions and millions of people turned out to vote for change and the Congress party establishment which has ruled for nearly 60 years has been thrashed in the election.

All over Europe, people want change, and it is the same here. People want truth, an end to spin. They want morals, no more sleaze. They want ethics, no more dodgy expenses. They want politicians, no more puppets.

"No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him."

Nothing can stop the people. No puppet is capable of stopping the public will. It is time for change.

A very wise article by a very wise man, Peter Oborne, in the Telgraph.

"Meanwhile, British party democracy has collapsed, along with the post-war economic model. All political leaders have embarked on a muddled and pitiful attempt to discover fresh modes of leadership and political expression.

Only one politician seems to be entirely at home in this post-democratic landscape. There is a paradox about Nigel Farage. In an era that has been stripped of familiar signposts, he might have walked straight off the set of an Ealing comedy. Dickens would have loved him. There has been no Axelrod figure lurking behind Mr Farage, trying to make him say the right things or wear the right clothes. He has advanced to his position of unprecedented public influence on his own terms. Voters sense this and respect it .

For many years, the Ukip leader was ignored by the mainstream media. In the 2004 European elections, Ukip marked its first major breakthrough, winning 16 per cent of the seats. However, the BBC marked the party down as “other” in its news report the following day.

Now that Mr Farage can no longer be ignored, he is sneered at instead . Even so, it looks possible that next week he will come top in the national vote. This will be a truly astounding achievement. No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow. Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html

The reason that everyone is against UKIP, that every party, every paper and every puppet are against them is because they are the people's party and not the establishment's party.

Every politically correct progressive and media employee is on ull alert to try and damage the people's party. But none of it is working, because the people are wise to the puppets.

There is panic in establishment circles, puppets' strings are being pulled so hard because the situation is desperate - the people are about to win, we are witnessing the death of spin.

This is historic. We have seen nothing like it. The people are backing the people's party, the spinners have thrown the kitchen sink at the people and the people's party, and everything the puppets have tried has boomeranged on them.

The spinners' party is over, their gravy train is up, luvvies in charidees will start having to earn their fees. It's over. Spinners will be crying in their beers as the people will celebrate with cheers.

Back

Not sure I'd vote for them, but as I said somewhere else today much of what you hear about UKIP is spouted by people who haven't really looked at them but just parrot what they read in the tabloids.

No, we've looked at them very closely. We've looked at their policies, and we've looked at what their councillors and members have to say - and we've concluded that they're racist deluded nutters.

Notice that when UKIP say cut immigration they are racist, but when the Tories promise the same thing it is a wise and thoughtful decision.

UKIP don't just say 'cut immigration'. They make racist and offensive remarks about immigrants, foreigners, and people of colour. And yes, many Tories are racist too.

When UKIP say they want to leave the EU they are mad/stupid, but when the Tories promise a referendum on leaving it is a good thing.

No, they're both stupid.

There is a great deal wrong with EU institutions, but the Tory scum and UKIPers are motivated primarily through nationalism, xenophobia, and wanting to remove the few remaining rights which the British still have.

SpinFight-

The assertions which are constantly made about UKIP members are easy to test - in the real world. If as ttosca makes clear we are, "nasty, reactionary, bigoted and racist" then it is a simple matter to check by merely talking to someone from UKIP or a party member.

Indeed. We've heard quite a lot from UKIP members and councillors, and it's easy to see that how nasty, reactionary, bigoted and racist they are.

I concur with SpinFight - go talk to UKIP members. Talk to as many of them as you can. Ask them how they feel about immigrants, gay people, people of colour, Muslims, and basically anyone who isn't a White Christian heterosexual.

Fascism is in fact the diametric opposite of Libertarianism

UKIP aren't a Libertarian party. Libertarians believe in the free movement of people. They also don't bash gay people, coloured people, homosexuals, etc.

Not sure I'd vote for them, but as I said somewhere else today much of what you hear about UKIP is spouted by people who haven't really looked at them but just parrot what they read in the tabloids.

Notice that when UKIP say cut immigration they are racist, but when the Tories promise the same thing it is a wise and thoughtful decision.

When UKIP say they want to leave the EU they are mad/stupid, but when the Tories promise a referendum on leaving it is a good thing.

Spinflight - as soon as you suggest people that disagree with UKIP's policies are "nasty and indecent" you've lost me.

Nasty and indecent is suggesting that aborting foetuses at high risk of Down's syndrome should be mandatory.

Nasty and indecent is suggesting that a man is perfectly entitled to rape his wife.

Then there's this muppet with his blatant islamophobia and almost hilarious assertion that Catholicism is, somehow, the answer
www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/15/ukip-islamophobia-row-john-kearney-catholic Particularly eyebrow raising is this bit:
"He also alleged that Britain is "a country run by sexual perverts who delight in child abuse", something he partly blames on Muslim teachings."
Yeah, because child abuse never happens in the Catholic church.

UKIP's own members make it very hard for me to see them as a credible party, before I even get anywhere near a manifesto.

Ukip: When their ‘poster girls’ see the light, how much longer before the rest of the country does – and Farage gets rattled? Not long actually.

“I can't campaign for Ukip any longer, says party's 'future face' Alexandra Swann over concerns with immigration stance”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rising-ukip-star-alexandra-swann-protests-her-own-partys-stance-on-immigration-9244746.html

“A woman who was heralded as the “future face” of Ukip says she can no longer face campaigning for the party because of their illiberal stance on immigration.”

“Alexandra Swann was supposed to represent the party's new, younger membership when she publicly defected from the Conservatives at Ukip's spring conference in 2012. Nigel Farage introduced her to a jubilant party faithful, boasting: "I'm very pleased to say that the Swann has migrated to Ukip".
“However, it seems the Swann has migrated again. She told The Independent: "I can't bring myself to campaign for them."

“The party's increasingly incendiary rhetoric on immigration has pushed Ms Swann, 25, away. She says: "The focus moved to immigration. It was difficult with the anti-gay marriage stuff. Now so much of their argument is anti-immigration which didn't sit well with me.”

"The party deliberately attracts the racist vote':Ukip poster girl tipped by Farage as 'rising star' quits over 'terrifying' lurch right.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2627408/The-party-deliberately-attracts-racist-vote-Ukip-poster-girl-tipped-Farage-rising-star-quits-terrifying-lurch-right.html

• Sanya-Jeet Thandi urges supporters not to vote for party anymore

• Hit out at ad campaign which claimed 26 million migrants after British jobs

• Claims Nigel Farage has let party descend into 'form of racist populism'

“A UKIP poster girl described by Nigel Farage as a ‘rising star’ has quit after describing it as a ‘racist’ and ‘terrifying’ party that she cannot vote for.”

“Sanya-Jeet Thandi, 21, a British-born Indian who had starred in a party election broadcast and spoken at its annual conference, accused Ukip of deliberately attracting racist voters.”

“The university student said the party had abandoned its core supporters and called on others to end their memberships and boycott the upcoming European elections.”

“Ukip spin doctor forced to intervene as Farage falters in disastrous radio interview”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-spin-doctor-forced-to-intervene-as-farage-falters-in-disastrous-radio-interview-9387776.html

“Nigel Farage’s image as a plain speaking-politician suffered a severe blow today, when he became so rattled on live radio that his chief spin doctor intervened to try to bring the interview to a halt.”

“In a tense 22-minute confrontation on LBC, the Ukip leader looked increasingly uncomfortable as he was asked about his views on race, on “idiots” in Ukip, and his parliamentary allowance.”