Why are ukip so bad?

"UKIP's policy is to oppose any motion that seeks to increase EU powers. Please don't assume that we would vote against such things in our own parliament."

That has to be just about the worst excuse. What's wrong with abstention? Why on earth would you vote against something so undeniably good for fellow mothers, sisters, wives?

To me it just seems like more of UKIPs anti-women stance. Against maternity leave, even Farage himself claiming women are "worth less" to employees. Abhorrent. UKIP so often appear to be dragging civilisation backwards.

Spinfight-

HopeNotHate is not a Labour organisation. It doesn't matter what Farage says.

spin - you say you have Greek donors - I thought donations from non UK donors are not permitted? Might have misunderstood the electoral commission a rules?

www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/wfnews/11217704.Gun_offence_Tory_to_be_sentenced_today/

www.bristolpost.co.uk/Conservative-councillor-Tim-Marter-resigns-ban/story-21098133-detail/story.html

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/flintshire-councillor-banned-bullying-disqualification-7127671

www.yourthurrock.com/2014/05/16/councillors-shambolic-case-adjourned-until-october/

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/kingstonnews/11216830.Kingston_councillor_charged_with_benefit_fraud_will_face_polls_before_court/

www.964eagle.co.uk/news/local-news/1285174/exclusive-guildford-councillor-speaks-to-eagle-following-her-arrest/

www.middevongazette.co.uk/Fraudster-councillor-Tiverton-forced-committees/story-21101893-detail/story.html

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Conservative-councillor-handed-ban-drink-driving/story-21093349-detail/story.html

www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/slough/articles/2014/05/15/100278-police-launch-election-fraud-probe-after-allegations-a-slough-labour-candidate-intimidated-a-resident-into-filling-out-her-postal-vote-/

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/conservative-candidate-guilty-of-cheating-london-council-in-30000-benefits-scam-9375335.html

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/five-middlesbrough-councillors-resign-labour-7080454

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/11207456.Bexley_Council_accused_of__whitewash__on_investigation_into_strippers_at_Crayford_pub/?ref=var_0

www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/local-headlines/tory-in-indy-sexist-claim-1-3411729#.U3R80R4ieDw.twitter

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-liberal-councillor-steve-radford-7122909

www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Labour-leader-hits-deputy-leader-resigns/story-21093241-detail/story.html

well, that looks like an unimpeachable source. Absolutely no swivel-eyed loons involved in that website whatsoever .

Some perspective....

nopenothope.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-latest-digest-of-crimes-etc-by.html?spref=fb

"Tories - 2 on firearms offences, 1 for falsely claiming to be a barrister, 1 drink driving ban, 1 disqualified for benefits fraud, 1 cronyism over pub license breach, 1 accused of sexist remarks

Labour - 1 banned from office for bullying, 1 cronyism delaying prosecution for benefits fraud, 1 electoral fraud allegation, 5 resignations over racism claims, 2 resignations over homophobia claims, 1 facing investigation into homophobic remarks

Lib Dem - 2 on benefits fraud charges"

--

2 days....

Yep, just two days worth of liblabcon scumbaggery which I think clearly crystallises the media's obsession with UKIP and it's blind eye to the old, failed, parties.

Incidentally this doesn't include the UAF and HnH which are funded by the old, failed, parties. Certainly you can add the rape of a four year old child ( conviction thereof not mere allegation) by a senior figure.

Frankly it is as though the crazies have been given a free pass - so long as they scream abuse at UKIP members. Likely enough that some people on this forum are involved....

Needless to say, if anything approaching a similar level of debauchery were committed by UKIP supporters then I think we can safely assume that many of the above offences would be front page news.

With that I will leave you to your discussion....

rsk2014,

UKIP's policy is to oppose any motion that seeks to increase EU powers. Please don't assume that we would vote against such things in our own parliament.

MEPs are paid about £300 a day merely for turning up, hence high attendance ( there are UKIP MEPs who concern themselves primarily with agriculture who have excellent attendance records ) is not necessarily a sign of diligence. That arch europhile Nick Clegg had a poorer attendence record than most UKIP MEPs...

Regardless which party you vote for MEPs are expensive creatures, costing the taxpayer about £1.8 million per year. Labour, Lib and tory MEPs ( who have cost you almost £600 million between them) merely rubber stamp everything that crosses their desks ( they have never prevented any EU legislation, not even the formation of the EU army). UKIP MEPs oppose and fight not just for the UK but for the downtrodden throughout the continent.

UKIP MEPs only compose 12% of the UK total, but make up 100% of the firepower.

Indeed Nigel is more popular in Greece than their PM and we have many members and even donors from Greece in our overseas branch.

I could go to Wilkos and buy a rubber stamp for a fiver without having to send it on fact finding trips in 5* hotels all over the world. Would do the same job as the dozens of pointless liblabcon charlatans.

UKIP's voting record in the EU is pretty poor - not just their attendance record.

Not a single UKIP MEP voted for increasing statutory maternity leave from 14 to 20 weeks across the EU.
They've never made a single vote in favour of any climate or energy change policies (and yes, climate change is the single most important issue facing our children!!!).
They voted against a clampdown in the Ivory trade :(

There are some sites out there which can help to highlight general party policies and help you to form a judgement about who to vote for, who you actually support. Hey it might be UKIP, but at least you can decide based on what you actually want.
There's Vote for Policies: voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/select
There is another better one too, can't remember the link though.

Silly Spinny .... no party has released their 2015 General Election Manifesto yet ... let alone reject the whole honking thing wholesale and try and wipe it off the face of the earth, like Ukip tried on their 2010 general election manifesto.

news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel
“UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.”

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/u-k-parties-prepare-for-2015-by-erasing-web-histories.html

“UKIP spokesman Michael Heaver confirmed that the party’s 2010 election manifesto had been removed. While the party now opposes the planned high-speed north-south rail line, the 2010 document advocated building three new routes.

“We’re in the process of updating everything,” Heaver said by telephone. “We’re going through a policy review.”

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm

For anyone wishing to see Ukip’s 2010 General Election manifesto, above is the BBC’s summary.

I do wonder at the sanity of anyone claiming that a mainstream political party in the UK is in favour of legalising rape.... Or any of the rest for that matter.

Could a Green, labour or tory poster please provide me with a link to their 2015 manifesto please?

Thatcher vs Farage hmmm.

One small difference, Thatcher was a 'detail' politician, had firm major policies and 'wasn't for turning' - Farage disowned his own 2010 General election manifesto blaming what he signed off on someone else, hasn't got a clue what Ukip policies are on 'big picture' local issues (when asked on the Daily Politics earlier in the week) and just spouts populist polices - hardly the makings of a State Funeral..

The mood of the electorate at the moment is exactly like it was when Margaret Thatcher was swept to power.

I remember the 1970s very well as a child. It was awful. I hated it. The strikes, the blackouts, the sense that the UK was going no where. I remember LibLab Pact no different to the LibCon coalition now.

The electorate wanted change back then. Thatcher was different. Not one of the usual Tory or Labour politicians that no one could tell apart. Heath and Wilson were peas in the same pod.

Farage is a 'Thatcher' figure for the electorate. I voted for Margaret Thatcher then and I will vote for Nigel Farage now.

UKIP - The Party of The People*

*So long as you're male, white, Christian, heterosexual, fully-abled, racist and stupid.

Oh right. So even though UKIP supporters are predominantly older white males and have almost no support from people of colour, you say they 'have people of all types'.

That's not disingenuous in the least bit.

I didn't say they have a "roughly even distribution", I said they have people of all types.

UKIP has approx 30% of the public supporting them now. They include people of all sexes, all races, all ages and all incomes.

No they don't. This is more of your fantasies.

Please provide a link showing the demographics of UKIP support to support a roughly even distribution of supporters from all sexes, races, ages, and income.

Otherwise, please stop spouting your fantasies as fact.

The political class are arrogant and think the people are stupid. That is why we are in such a bad state.

Peter Oborne spells it out in the Telegraph

"Meanwhile, British party democracy has collapsed , along with the post-war economic model. All political leaders have embarked on a muddled and pitiful attempt to discover fresh modes of leadership and political expression."

and Natalie Bennet of the Greens said that British two-party system is "broken".

It is very bad news, because it means that the people are losing faith because they are not being properly represented.

The political class have to start respecting the people and start listening to them. But can they? They are so divorced from ordinary people with their perks and expenses and feeling that lots of the people are "fruitcakes".

The only way to solve it is to devolve power back to the people, to bring in a proportioanl system where people start to believe that their views and opinions count. The spinners will have to move aside and let the people have their say. But will the elite allow this to happen?

"So people complain about directives made in Brussels,but don't care enough to send someone who would actually represent them there? That doesn't make any sense."

The real reason for that is because the people think that the politicians and political parties are "all in it together" and that none of them listen to the people or care what the people think. The people think that the parties think that the people are "stupid" etc, "fruitcakes", "swivel-eyed loons" etc and therefore the people have lost faith in anything changing or anyone listening to them.

The people no longer trust the spinners and professional career pollitician class. They know they are being spun and lied to and they know that the media are "in it all together" too. That is why the people have suddenly turned en masse to UKIP, because they think that UKIP are different, that they are "one of us" and are not "in it together" with the establishment who all attack them and call them "fruitcakes".

So the establishment spinners latest tactic is to tell the people that UKIP are also the political class and are exactly the same as the spinners and claim the same expenses as the spinners claim etc. except that they "don't trun up" and that the people should be grateful for the spinners who do "turn up". But it is not working, because for now the people believe that UKIP are different and are "one of us" and not "one of them" and the people don't care about the "turning up", because they want to turn them all out.

its irritating whoever they belong to.

Alemci - don't worry about the extra cars at the school gates. Aren't all immigrants too lowly and poor to afford them? They're the 'wrong' sort of people according to UKIP.

So people complain about directives made in Brussels,but don't care enough to send someone who would actually represent them there? That doesn't make any sense.

most people you come across in everyday life do have concerns about immigration. For example the primary school up the road is expanding to 3 form. more cars and chaos in the morning from Sept. great, how wonderful.

doesn't make people racist to not want so many people entering the UK with limited resources.

on QT an audience member questioned issues with housing, it was glossed over. the politicians seem out of touch.

the affordable housing we are being told we must build, blow the green belt, who will get it?

"You think 30% of the public are either racist or stupid"

Well, that's not a massive stretch, given that 50% of the population are of below average intelligence.

I was amused to see a survey of UKIP supporters, saying 80% of them don't think it's a racist party. So 1 in 5 UKIP supporters do think it's racist, are prepared to admit that in a survey, and it doesn't put them off.

'Watch that LBC interview'

I watched it. I don't follow the Guardian consensus about James O'Brien's interview.