Why are ukip so bad?

Well, UKIP are against rights for minorities like women, homosexuals, transgenders, and people of different ethnics. So yes, I would NEVER vote for them

Will spin come back and answer my question on the permissibility of Greek donors?

"TBH, I think until we stop expecting our MPs to be young(ish) and photogenic(ish) we're just going to get more of the same. I don't want young(ish) go-getters representing me. I want someone whom I can look up to, someone who's had a lot of experience and might have developed some sagacity and even integrity. Most of the current twerps know less about life (and work) than I do."

Absolutely spot on.

They give us young twerps with shiny teeth because they treat us with contempt, just as the "media toadies" treat Farage with contempt. They think the people are so stupid that they will only listen to young, shiny toothed liars - that is part of their whole spin ethos. They think that young good-looking photogenic spinners will be able to spin us.

What they don't understand is that we want truth, not lies and spin.

Like Farage or not, he is popular because he is the antithesis of spin. He is everything they are against, he says things they dare not say such as over Ukraine, and that is why the people give him a higher trust rating in polls than any one of the spinners.

OK, given that no-one got who they voted for at the last election
And that most MPs are pretty smug and not very interested in us
And that career politicians are, well, career politicians
And that the civil service run everything anyway

If there turns out to be a massive vote for UKIP, it might, just might, have the 3 'main' parties scared shitless. That isn't a bad thing. Might as well let them have a go at messing everything up.

TBH, I think until we stop expecting our MPs to be young(ish) and photogenic(ish) we're just going to get more of the same. I don't want young(ish) go-getters representing me. I want someone whom I can look up to, someone who's had a lot of experience and might have developed some sagacity and even integrity. Most of the current twerps know less about life (and work) than I do.

Goodnight

Goodnight.

They know that Farage is popular and they wish the people liked them half as much as they like Farage. They know the people like the fact that Farage has a fag and a pint just like ordinary people do. So now you can see them all using the same term to describe Farage - a term told to the puppets by their teenage spinners from public schools. They "all in it together" call him "beer-swilling" in a desperate attempt to dent his popular appeal - of which they have none.

But the more they call Farage "beer-swilling", the more the people like him, because it reminds the people of how they were "trough swilling".

The toadies are all fighting among themsleves to be the first one to bring Farage down. Their contempt, their spin, their insults know no bounds as they vie to be the first one to bring Farage down so that they can claim their career rewards from their masters. But Farage is too smart for them because he tells the truth and they tell lies. Spin is all they know and Farage and the people know that only too well.

Sunday will tell us who won - the people or the toadies.

' This so-called alliance is no bother to Mr Farage. '

Of course it isn't. Because toadies and puppets are no match for Farage, because it is the people who are behind Farage as the polls consistently show. No toady can beat the people. No toady is a match for the people. They will roll out radio interviewers who want to make a name for themselves and gain promotion by trying to do Farage down, but nothing will dent Farage because the people are with him. That is why Cleggy floundered and so will the rest flounder too.

Peter Oborne, one of our few independent voices left, certainly no "media toadie", on the Telegraph, spelt it out, just like independent Hitchens did too.

"Now that Mr Farage can no longer be ignored, he is sneered at instead . Even so, it looks possible that next week he will come top in the national vote. This will be a truly astounding achievement. No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation . Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow . Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party."

Farage was against the Euro, against the EU, against a strike on Syria and against the consensus on Ukraine. He is against the consensus of open door immigration from the EU. Farage is no puppet, he is independent and that is why they are all against him.

I've seen quite a lot of alliances between politicians and the media along the way. Haven't you?

It's a pretty odd 'disgraceful alliance' that puts a smiling picture of Mr Farage on the front pages three or four times a week. This so-called alliance is no bother to Mr Farage. He's available for a quote any time of the day or night to any journalist as he knows that at this stage the vital thing is to be talked about, in any way at all. In the unlikely event of UKIP actually achieving some power and doing something with it, watch the shutters come down, because the way the media treats established parties is far more damaging to them.

Can you not see the puppets? Do you not see that they all have to do the same thing? Do you not see that no one can act independently except for Farage? Did you not see how puppets attacked Farage when he said what he said about Ukraine.

We are lucky we live in a democracy where the people are sovereign and it will be the peope who decide who rules us, not the "media toadies".

Hitchens says

I have taken a close interest in British politics since I was a schoolboy , and I have never seen a more disgraceful alliance between politicians and their media toadies than the one that has been secretly made to do down UKIP.

Hitchens used to be a Moscow correspondent. He won the "Orwell Prize"
He knows of what he speaks and has seen it with his eyes.

I am looking at WWI, as I said, as well as WWII. I'm looking at WWI when a tangle of alliances and an upsurge of multiple European nationalisms plus an increasingly powerful militarism caused a global disaster. I agree with you that the situation in Ukraine is highly dangerous but I don't agree that that situation would be tickety boo if we were out of the EU.

'I'd rather be all in it together than thick as thieves with Mr Putin if i'm honest.'

I'd rather be independent and not be forced to go along with what the unaccountable, unelected Brussels bureaucrats and bankers decide. And if the polls are right, then it seems that there may be a landslide for independence and national sovereignty and Farage and UKIP.

'I don't think it is any accident that the rise of UKIP is happening just as WWII is falling out of living memory.'

What you should be looking at is WWI and the centenary of WWI, not WWII, and you should take account of the BBC documentaries about WWI and the push to say that it was a patriotic war and was not pointless and question what some "toadies" are saying and then you should look at what is happening in Ukraine and remember Farage's wise words.

I'd rather be all in it together than thick as thieves with Mr Putin if i'm honest.

joanofarchitrave, the real danger of war is between the US/EU and Russia.
Farage, the statesman, said that the EU was wrong to encourage the Western Ukrainians and he said that "the EU has blood on its hands over Ukraine"

When countries lose their sovereignty, they become puppets, and puppets' strings are pulled and all the puppets are forced to carry out the same actions and the same policies and the same sanctions and end up being "all in it together" and Farage is pointing to that and that is why he said what he said about the EU and Ukraine.

Well, if the people represent the puppets, they will also have to look after their interests.

It is extremely obvious that UKIP are just like any other political party, in that they seek election to local authorities, Westminster and Brussels, and are funded obscurely by high net worth individuals. I will be interested to see where that money goes if UKIP actually pass some of their policies and said high net worth individuals find that their interests are not as separate from other parts of the world as they thought. Of course, rich people can always emigrate, unlike 'the people', who will no longer be able to up sticks and go to another European country without anyone interfering with their desire to do so.

So you'll be voting for the "all in it together" lot?

So far, the polls are predicting a landslide for the other side, the common sense party of change

Hitchens said
"I have never seen a more disgraceful alliance between politicians and their media toadies than the one that has been secretly made to do down UKIP."
but I think he should maybe have added the Socialist Workers' Party too.

It is the people vs the entire establishment. Hitchens calls them "media toadies".

We will have to wait for Sunday to see who wins - the people or the puppets.

MrJolly - I love your username. I loved the film. I haven't seen it in years.

I just feel that if the EU unravels, what we will have instead will be a constantly shifting tangle of alliances, secret treaties and deals with a high risk that European countries will fall into a war, as happened in 1914. I agree that sounds a lot like the European Union anyway but at least there is some governance structure, some accountability, some records.

I don't think it is any accident that the rise of UKIP is happening just as WWII is falling out of living memory.

Well, there you have it. The Tory Party and The Guardian (and the BBC) are all united against UKIP. That would seem the best possible reason to vote UKIP

So the best reason to vote UKIP is because the Tory Party, the Guardian and the BBC are all against them?

I'll be voting based on policy, thanks all the same

Peter Hitchens article on the best reason to vote UKIP. I had no idea about what he is saying. I was having my doubts about voting UKIP, but Hitchens has convinced me.

If all the progressives like the Guardian, the BBC and the Conservative Party are agin UKIP, then it's no wonder that UKIP are the pollsters' top tip.

"Here is the best reason for voting UKIP

I don't like UKIP or its leader, Nigel Farage. They are the Dad’s Army of British politics, doddery, farcical and very unclear about what they are actually for.

But they have Captain Mainwaring’s virtues too. They are absolutely certain about what they are against, in this case an aloof political establishment that despises the concerns of normal human beings.

They are also indomitable when under attack. And they need to be. I have taken a close interest in British politics since I was a schoolboy, and I have never seen a more disgraceful alliance between politicians and their media toadies than the one that has been secretly made to do down UKIP.

On one day last week, almost every unpopular newspaper carried a cartoon portraying Nigel Farage as ugly, stupid or embattled, or all three.

Last Wednesday, the insider magazine Private Eye also claimed that the Leftist daily The Guardian had made a secret deal with the Tory Party, which claims to be conservative .

The Tories, it was alleged, had promised the favourite newspaper of the liberal elite a steady supply of damaging stories about UKIP candidates saying daft things (Tories, of course, never say daft things). In return, the newspaper had promised to avoid identifying the source.

Such stories are immediately picked up by BBC radio and TV news channels, which view The Guardian as sacred text. Asked about the allegation, The Guardian drew itself up to its full height and snapped: ‘The Guardian does not disclose its sources.’ (A certain Sarah Tisdall, who went to prison 30 years ago after The Guardian handed over documents that disclosed her as its source, might disagree.)

Well, there you have it. The Tory Party and The Guardian (and the BBC) are all united against UKIP. That would seem the best possible reason to vote UKIP. It also tells you who and what the Conservative Party really is

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2631545/PETER-HITCHENS-Fair-taxes-Theyre-likely-Osborne-joining-Take-That.html

So Spin what do you think of Demitri Marchesini?

Simon Dancxuk of Labour gets it. He seems like a good MP. It seems he is also a first-time MP. It is also interesting that he is writing in the people's paper.

"UKIP has proved that there’s a rich seam of despairing voters out there. They’ve been ignored for far too long and Labour has to show it’s willing to listen.

It’s daft to characterise UKIP voters as disaffected loons, because many are simply working-class people tired of the three main parties. A lot are Labour people and we need to work hard to get them back.

There are still many in the party who think we have a right to govern. Some have mostly known Labour victories, which makes it easy for them to dismiss the 2010 Election as an aberration. New MPs such as myself know all too well there is no easy way back into power.

The latest polls are a wake-up call. But we should be under no illusion. Time is running out and if we don’t have a strong showing in the European and local elections this week then things will need to change.

Labour doesn’t need to panic – yet. But more of the same won’t cut it. Earning the trust of the public is hard and there are no short cuts."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2631478/Mantra-misery-fools-policy-Labour-wont-win-election-fighting-defeatist-says-MP-SIMON-DANCZUK.html