So, what will it take for the Tories tod itch Cameron?

'It's just a slow erosion of all the 'good stuff' and in it's place we are getting what exactly?'

We are getting a Saul Alinsky progressive paradise.

It is one little thing after another that is sending voters over the "tipping point" and that is what has made Farage the most popular political leader out of all the parties.

Our street lights have now gone off at night. You can't see a single thing. Motorcyclists say that they can no longer see all of the potholes in the road and are coming off their bikes in the dark as they hit the potholes that are not being mended with our taxes.

Where will it all end? No wonder people are voting UKIP.

'My green waste used to be taken away for free - now they charge 38 pa.'

I always knew that that was behind it but I didn't know it had happened yet. 38 pounds is only the start. They will squeeze the people more and more over time.

'Who is running the Cameronian Party – Common Purpose?'

The Tory faithful are not hanging around to find out. They have scarpered, they have had it away on their toes, they legged it so fast they even left their "vote blue, go green" stickers behind. They weren't going to bang on doorsteps and try to sell the "Big Society" to the voters, they weren't stupid, they weren't progressive, they were proud Tories for God sake, they had pictures of Maggie above their dining room tables, and they weren't prepared to sell the merits of the "rooftop wind turbine" to the hardworking people of Britain, if they did that they thought that one of them might hit 'em.

They got out while they could and now they are gone for good, they've gone to UKIP like everyone else in the hood.

'He has not had 'the big idea'

His big idea was the 'Big Society' but he is nowhere to be seen on that either, fortunately for him or he would lose even more Tory voters. It has been fropped like a hot potato, and of course, as usual, it isn't even conservative, instead, as usual, it is progressive - a Saul Alinsky radical Marxist style policy.

""This plan is directly based on the successful community organising movement established by Saul Alinsky in the United States and has successfully trained generations of community organisers, including President Obama."

That statement, which beggars belief even in the political fairground we now inhabit, is not taken from some far-out Trotskyite samizdat, but from the official Conservative Party introduction to David Cameron’s Big Idea – the creation of a “Neighbourhood army” of 5,000 full-time community organisers to implement his grotesque fantasy called “Big Society”. If you ever doubted that, under Cameron, the Conservative Party has become ideologically and culturally deracinated, has lost its political compass and is occupied by an alien clique that has disfigured it beyond recognition, here is the incontestable evidence.

Saul Alinsky is here openly acknowledged as the inspiration behind Cameron’s “Big Idea”. Alinsky was the lifelong cultural revolutionary and political subversive whom Barack Obama formerly claimed as his “spiritual mentor”; since Obama hit mainstream politics, however, his supporters have expended a vast amount of effort on trying to conceal that embarrassing history. The aggressively amoral Alinsky believed there was no right or wrong in politics, only what was necessary to seize power (well, Dave and his gang would buy that).

Yet the Conservative Party blurts out this admission in the launch document of Big Society. There is a pedantic debate over whether Alinsky was technically a Marxist, or by-passed Marx as old-hat. What is beyond question is his project to overthrow capitalist society and to do so through infiltration of political parties, institutions and, above all, by the use of “community organisers”. Anybody who thought claims on this blog of Cultural Marxism influencing even the Tory Party were exaggerated can now think again. Alinsky was the first begetter of ACORN, the sinister organisation that tried to gerrymander the American electorate.

What is going on here? Who is running the Cameronian Party – Common Purpose? How is it conceivable that even the most bland, politically correct, centre-right “conservative” party could derive its flagship policy from the thinking of Alinsky, whose seminal work Rules for Radicals was dedicated to Lucifer?"

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geraldwarner/100032381/david-camerons-big-society-is-a-grotesque-fantasy-inspired-by-leftist-subversive-saul-alinsky/

The progressives are in charge and that is why they call good Tories "swivel-eyed loons" and why the Tory faithful has stampeded for the exit and boarded the UKIP bus.

'Why do you think he has suddenly launched his 'we are a Christian country' idea? I'm certain it is a desperate appeal to those grassroots Tories who he has driven off to UKIP.'

And Cameron has even messed that up because he hasn't come out and defended his "position". All we are hearing now is that we are not a Christian country and Cleggy, the Deputy Prime Minister, wants the Church of England to be disestablished, and Cameron is nowhere to be seen. He is not defending the establishment of the Church or elaborating on his "position". Therefore he is at risk of showing weakness and a lack of conviction yet again, and is in danger of looking like a "spinner", which would undoubtedly have been one of the seven deadly sins if they had known about "spin" back in the day.

Cameron's attitude has always been 'the core vote is secure, they have nowhere to go'. But now UKIP has provided that 'somewhere to go', and Cameron is only just catching up (having condemned UKIP as 'fruitcakes, loons and closet racists').

Why do you think he has suddenly launched his 'we are a Christian country' idea? I'm certain it is a desperate appeal to those grassroots Tories who he has driven off to UKIP.

I sound like a Tory here, but I'm not, I couldn't be further from the Tories, but I am interested in the dynamics of politics.

Another area they have disenfranchised core tory voters is in their attacks on the 'traditional' family. It is very financially disadvantageous to have a mother stay at home with children now - you are far far better off to have 2 equal earning partners; this is through child benefit reforms, the lowering of the HRT threshold and the introduction of the childcare allowances for 2 working parents.

If you are a SAHM with a dh earning something in the 50-70k bracket (many of whom have traditionally being core tory voters, and whose parents also have been), you have been totally screwed by the government. And I think a lot of people are very angry about that also.

I also think they think Cameron has reneged on his 'cast iron guarantee' on an EU referendum, and many will turn to UKIP to protest against Cameron, and I think this may well be the case in the general election as well as the European elections tbh, because it will be a 'vote against Cameron' - if Tories won the election, then Cameron would stay, and I don't think the Tory grass -roots want that.

If nothing else, he has been very rude about them and to them on numerous occasions! Referring to them as 'swivel-eyed loons' probably didn't help.

Isitmebut

There are a great many issues which the Tory core vote are very angry about;

Planning reforms
HS2
Gay marriage

being only 3.

LilyBolero ...I certainly agree with your view on the enormity and likely outcome of the Conservative 2015 challenge even though the 2010 results were skewed by a strong Lib Dem and Ukip voting that may or may not be there ON THE DAY on a two main party choice - but please explain how "Cameron has disenfranchised most of his core vote"?

Wrt Danny Alexander, he is a toerag imo. Anyone who thinks he is 'good' should listen to him trying to justify coalition economic policies, from tuition fees, to child benefit, to the bedroom tax.

Cameron will stay till after the General Election. There is no chance of the Torys getting an outright majority - pretty well no government has increased their share of the vote having been in power, at least not for decades. Cameron has disenfranchised most of his core vote, but has not picked up others. A fairly frightening stat (if you're a Tory) is that 1/3 of people who voted Conservative in 2010 will not vote Tory again in 2015, according to polls.

Boris is positioning himself to take over after 2015, imo, and Gideon also. Theresa May possibly?

Clegg could go any time, but I think the Lib Dems are destined to have massive losses in 2015, with the only possible way out for them if Tim Farron takes over - he very carefully voted against tuition fee rises, and I reckon got the Party Presidency on the back of it. He is therefore not tainted by that particular scandal, and can hold his hands up and say 'it wasn't in my name'.

Personally, I hope Clegg loses his seat. And I hope Labour win an outright majority, so that the snivelly Libdems don't stay in power. It is no democracy when a party comes a wretched 3rd (or 4th?), and is in Government - how can you vote someone out then? And then it will be up to Labour to do something with their time, and be judged on it accordingly.

Claig....you attack time after time a few Lib Dem and Conservative policies in their 2010 manifesto they HAD to ditch UNDER the urgent (left versus righ politics) Coalition Agreement needed to restore political and markets order - yet in 'Claig World' Ukip can ditch the whole bleedin' lot under no such pressures and it's called "honesty and ethical"?????

The votes were already in, Ukips votes resulted in the first coalition in several decades being forced upon this country - we COULD have had a political policy impasse resulting in economic/social disasters - yet Farage would have been without blame as he's a good egg, what, are you his wife??????????

Of course the point is if Ukip Farage did it in the last elections, what's to stop them doing it again rather than try and alienate any of the cross party voters?

With such a flakey regard for policies and the importance on continued growth in this country, under no circumstances should Cameron or Miliband even think of allowing Farage into a policy debate, for the very obvious 'once bitten' reason above - and that piss-poor effort of a manifesto was after being around nearly 20-years.

'the worse possible spin is WIN VOTES (and influence an election) on a 2010 manifesto, AND AFTER FARAGE CALL IT “DRIVEL”'

That is called honesty and ethical conduct, and the public loved it. Farage's popularity polls shot up when he called the old manifesto "drivel", because that was in touch with the public who thought it was "drivel" too.

Farage is a humble man, willing to accept mistakes and call "drivel" drivel. He does not stand on ceremony or spout spin like some Tories are accustomed to do.

Claig …for Christ’s sakes DO get a grip on what you are saying… how can any party DEBATE with a political party WITHOUT a manifesto, as all Ukip/Farage has to do is ATTACK, they have NOTHING to defend, either having ever been in government or sticking not flip flopping policies for votes.

How can Ukip lecture ANYONE on ‘spin’, when the worse possible spin is WIN VOTES (and influence an election) on a 2010 manifesto, AND AFTER FARAGE CALL IT “DRIVEL”. Guffaw.

WetAugust…”the Ukip affect” is similar to every protest against the Great Recession and attempts at austerity across Europe at the moment; it is a political a ‘earthquake’ , causing a relatively short and damaging shock, but as long as an established political party (whether in government or not) has on balance all the right policies, all they can do it sit it out and appeal to those with a better grasp of the reality, including worshipping an earthquake with no powers whatsoever to directly benefit society, or the economy.

On the choice of the three main parties that will in one permutation or another form the next government in 2015, only the Conservatives come anywhere close to United Kingdom Independence issue that Ukip has named on it’s can – so if Ukip voters can’t see that simple fact and who crashed the economy in the first place, there is nothing else a Conservative hierarchy can do about that.

Treaclepot …..no I am not saying that “only Conservative voters are stupid enough to vote for Ukip”, but as the majority of the core Labour voters will vote Labour no matter how incompetent they are (as apparently whatever they do e.g. mass immigration is ‘in touch’), so EVEN IF for every Conservative voter protesting via a Ukip vote it is matched by a previous Labour voter - THE FACT that the Conservatives need to be several points AHEAD in the polls on election day (as they need far more individual votes than Labour to get the same parliamentary majority), any vote for Ukip is, in one way or another, a vote for Labour administration, as in 2010.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/7693877/General-Election-2010-Ukip-challenge-cost-Tories-a-Commons-majority.html

Claig …..re Cameron going after the European elections, I think that you have been repeating your badly qualified opinion on Cameron’s demise for so long, that you have lost touch with political reality; where although the majority Ukip voters may have a mono issue they focus on (whatever it is), for the majority of people, especially core Conservative, they look at a whole range of issues that Cameron is delivering on.

And for every month until the election, things will get better domestically and in comparison with other countries and the electorate will realise that whether they look at the economy, readdressing social issues, our EU membership, immigration and other issues, in 2015 ONLY the Conservatives of Labour will form the next administration – and ‘protesting’ about those facts or calling it spin when Ukip HAVE no policies to spin (which is worse), will be both like peeing against the wind and dumping the incompetent Labour Party back in power.

Imagine if David Davis debated Farage. As great a performer as Farage is, he would not be able to trounce Davis like he trounced the chum, Cleggy.
That's because Davis is not a spinner and because on many issues he would agree with Farage and therefore there could be no argument.

With Davis, the Tories might even be able to rebrand themselves and get rid of spin and attract some of the huge numbers now voting for UKIP. The anti UKIP people, turned off by some of the fringe fruitcake statements, would prefer Davis to UKIP.

But, we know that the real elite want us to remain in Europe, so would they allow any major party to threaten exit from the elite's club? Is Davis really a safe pair of hands for the elite, is he enough of a chum for them?

David Davis is very good and crucially he is not a spinner. he has convictions and stands by them. I think Cameron cannot win disaffected Tory voters back. Too much spin, too little substance. David Davis could do it. Davis could even make an attempt at challenging Farage and winning back disaffected Tories.

"The Tory revolt over Europe took a dramatic turn last night after senior Conservative David Davis called on the Government to open talks with Brussels on quitting the EU.

Former Tory chairman Mr Davis tore into David Cameron, accusing him of making a mess of his pledge to win back powers from the EU.

‘Scaremongers’ who said Britain would collapse if it decided to go it alone were talking nonsense, said Mr Davis. Quitting the EU would be like a ‘revolution’ and would boost UK jobs, wages, world power, arts and prestige, he added.

Significantly, his intervention comes days after two televised political debates in which anti-EU leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage, crushed pro-EU Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg.

And it will spark claims that Mr Davis is turning himself into a Tory version of Mr Farage , ready to exploit the leadership crisis Mr Cameron would face if UKIP makes big gains in next month’s Euro elections."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2597945/Get-ready-quit-EU-Davis-tells-Tories-tears-Cameron-predicts-UKIP-triumph-Euro-elections.html

People are fed up of politically correct professional spinners. They are crying out for some substance and some conviction. No more spin is the only way to win.