So, what will it take for the Tories tod itch Cameron?

I do a bit too. Cant quite put my finger on why though.

I find it hard to envisage Cameron or clegg going anywhere. they both seem very safe and cushdy , and I can't see anyone pushing them out. despite the fact that they are both DIRE.

Clegg is more likely to go than Cameron, but I think we may be stuck with both of them till after the election. Clegg is muttering about wanting to be deputy PM for 10 years...

I think Clegg may go soonish. But not Cameron.

You could possibly address how a LOW TAX party can consider 50% too high a rate of tax for those on 150k, but 73% is ok for those on a third of that salary. You talk about the conservatives enabling us to 'keep more of the money we earn' - well not in my house. The reality of that policy is that it is totally anti-aspiration - what is the point of working extra hours when 3/4 of the money earned goes straight to the treasury.

the 1 year consolidation was to cement the growth that was in place by the time Labour left office. Then once the recovery was secure, deficit reduction could be tackled. Without growth in the economy, deficit reduction is pretty well impossible. Which is why Osborne's plan of 'get rid of the deficit in 1 term' failed abysmally.

LillyBolero …. Before I address a few other issues you have brought up on Labour’s abysmal record in power, you keep mentioning Labour’s Darling as past and future Chancellor, and his 2010 ‘plan to reduce the deficit by 50% in 4-years’.

Labour were in government in 2010, we had lost around 7% of economic output (GDP) in 1-year (2008), our manufacturing base had halved under Labour to 11% of our economy, our financial services sector was no longer a profits/tax cash cow for the government – yet all our expenses of a fat, inefficient government etc still remained – why was leaving it YET ANOTHER YEAR as ‘more of the same’ a good Darling policy, other than get past the 2010 general election?

So unless you can show us THE DARLING UK FINANCIAL PLAN we might have missed in 2010, to reduce our debts and expenditures AND boost a decimated Private Sector (jobs), we have to assume the Fuel Duty and National Insurance rises Labour implemented prior to the general election (to come in afterwards), was the best Labour and Mr Darling had.

“Labour's planned National Insurance increase will cost jobs, Alistair Darling admits”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/7539343/Labours-planned-National-Insurance-increase-will-cost-jobs-Alistair-Darling-admits.html

“In his evidence, Mr Darling defended his plans to increase national insurance, saying it was necessary to raise extra money to reduce Government borrowing, which will be £167 billion this year.”

Note the £167 billion figure, Labour had no clue how to solve the UK’s problems other than the ‘more of the same’ that gave us the deficit, yet more taxes than the others they promised us to help our 'cost of living' crisis that started at least 6-years ago and ever more borrowing.

WetAugust - I think Ed's best move now would be to reinstate Alistair Darling as chancellor, he does retain a huge amount of integrity (slightly bizarrely actually, because he was actually chancellor at the time of the crash, Ed Balls was Education Minister, having been City minister, but Balls is much more blamed for it than Darling). Even Cameron seems to have some sort of respect for Darling, and has never blamed him for the economy crashing, and I think the public would feel safer tbh.

Ed Balls is a very good economist, (unlike George Osborne, who has a history degree), but I do think people worry about him being chancellor.

So Ed M, if you're reading this, ditch Balls (for the greater good), get Darling back, and don't worry about the flak for ditching Balls!

Why Labour?

Well, it would have to be labour or green tbh. Tory - I cannot vote Tory, I never could anyway, but the way they have screwed over the poor and vulnerable would confirm that. Cameron and his rich cronies are vile.

Lib Dem - they are a bunch of lying turncoats who are only interested in being in power. They will say anything to get elected. They have voted to triple tuition fees, to bring in the bedroom tax etc etc. they are only interested in power. Clef is despicable.

Ed Miliband is not perfect (by any means), but I do think he is a deep thinker and a person who is prepared to tip things on their head for change. He has set the agenda, and I think he has integrity, but his presentation is not always brilliant.

I also do not subscribe to the whole myth that 'labour caused the global crash', it would have happened whoever was in power. The Tories supported labour's spending plans, saying they would match them 'pound for pound', and Cameron wanted even more deregulation of the banks.

Finally, who was the advisor in the treasury on Black Wednesday, the day the pound crashed out of the ERM?

David Cameron.

So his history is as bad as any labour record tbh.

I'll repeat my question: what are you blathering on about? Why would I attack your Grandmother ?

Also, wrt attitudes to the deficit, the Darling plan to consolidate growth for 1 year & then reduce by 50% over 4 years, if achieved, would represent a bigger dent in the deficit than Osborne's austerity has managed.

Isitmebut

You have absolutely missed the point I was making. You can make value judgements about whether those are good policies if you like. I was answering your point about how the conservatives have disenfranchised their core vote, and it is through policies such as the ones I have listed. I'm not going to get into whether they are right or not, the polls say this is what the Tory core vote feels.

The imposition of eye-wateringly high marginal rates of tax will come back to bite them I feel, as for the 'middle income traditional family' (whatever you think about that concept) the UK is a ridiculously high tax place to live. 73% is nothing less than a punitive rate of tax.

I am no UKIP supported btw. I will be voting Labour.

TheHammacondas default mode; if don't like the answer, swears and attacks my spelling and granma. lol

If you need help on any point I've made, be specific.

Still in the political closet, how brave.

When you've brushed up on your economic data, gissa shout on 'Cost of Living' post on the 'News' Board.

Oh, and please read your posts - you seem completely incapable of constructing a sentence let alone a cogent argument.

What in the name of fuck are you blethering on about now? Why do I need to explain myself to you? Am I only entitled to a view if I'm a Tory?

There used to be some intelligent Tory voting posters on these boards. What happened to Cogito, Nice Guy et al?

Hey, it’s the Hammaconda back, are you ready to come out of the political closet yet re who you are arguing for? Or have another attempt at trashing the economic recovery if no longer on holiday?

Regarding the Lib Dem policy of income tax start of £10,500, that similar to EVERY ONE of Ukip’s ONE policy of leaving the EU, would not have happened unless the Conservatives, the low tax party, wasn’t in government.

With a 2010 annual budget deficit of £157 billion, any sensible party should not have tried fighting that election with big promises of tax cuts, as until they got in power and saw the country’s financial books for themselves, it lacked credibility – BUT ONCE IN POWER, whether the Lib Dems insisted it became part of the Coalition Agreement or not, as the Conservative have PROVED OVER DECADES to be THE party of lower taxes i.e. in 1979 the lower income tax rate 32p, upper 66p plus, then over 96p for unearned income – it wasn’t a problem due to their Plan A and needed to help the lower paid.

Helping the pensioners have been screwed on the State system for 13-years and those that lost around £200 billion on Private pensions due to Brown's raid - wasn't a Lib Dem policy, or do you want to give a minor coalition member credit for that as well?

As to Bolero’s point, it is a rubbish point based on her examples, that is why I couldn’t wait to see her answers as NONE of them were ‘big picture’ items – as what the Conservatives stand on is the complete opposite of Labour’s term in office – on the Tory assurance to let the individual to keep as much of their income as possible to make their own choices, lower size and cost of fat government, ability to grow a Private Sector/investment/jobs/homes, controlled immigration, an EU referendum, pro saving, pro pensions, pro budget deficit control etc etc etc.

So re what LilyBolero said, mentioning 2 or 3 subjects which I have covered above, if that is what Conservative voters worry about; MORE than all the core economically and socially SUSTAINABLE values above, which handed Labour the fastest growing economy in Europe in 1997 and is so again - then LET THEM HAVE LABOUR BACK.

Cameron has done a brilliant job fixing a national crisis Labour didn’t know where to start and Ukip’s policies were a bad joke, so I’m not derailing the subject on Cameron, for that look at all that Ukip rollocks above.

Isitmebut

Under the Conservatives the start rate to pay income tax in £10,500

That's a LibDem policy that went into the Coalition Agreement. The Conservatives can't take the credit for that one. The government can but not the Conservative Party. Nice try.

As for the rest of your post, do you not understand Lily Bolero's point? Cameron has taken the core Tory voters for granted, he's been so keen to attract the moderates that he's introduced policies that huge numbers of conservatives don't support.

Stop trying to derail the thread. It's not about UKIP or any alternative that they may or may not present. Many Tory voters feel that the current Conservative leadership do not represent them at all.

I agree with almost all of that, Isitme.

Especially UKIP not even being able to organise a pub crawl. Farage is a good communicator, though he is lazy and lacks discipline (see his recent GQ interview where he admits he doesn't even know what is on his own party's website, among other things).

The rest of the party is a very strange collection of oddballs who do not come across as being bright, organised or sensible, and that's being kind.

LilyBolero …Regarding your points on Cameron’s lack of Conservative values, seriously for the political party that has now saved this nation twice from economic disaster, is that all you have versus all the ones that make for a sustainable and prosperous economy - when the alternative is Labour?

Take taxes, Ukip stood for a FLAT RATE of tax and national insurance of 31p, you imagine if the Tories tried to bring that in, in order ‘to help the rich’, yet Farage clearly wanted it for his ex city mates, how would a START rate of income tax of 31p helped the poor?????

Under the Conservatives the start rate to pay income tax in £10,500 and rich are paying far more tax than under Labour and clearly a shed load more than Ukip TAX CUTS for the rich.

Take HS2, In Ukip’s 2010 manifesto they said “Ensure "comprehensive electrification" of rail lines and introduce three high-speed lines linking London to the Midlands, northern England and Birmingham” – why the UKIP u-turn, once again for opportunist votes?

Take gay marriage; Why not if it does not affect you or me and makes others happy? Ukip hates gays, blacks, browns, in fact most people not white hetrosexual Anglo Saxon.

Take 'Cast iron EU Referendum: that policy was promised the people a say BEFORE Labour’s Brown finally signed us ‘in’, but is promised now AND ONLY THE ANTI EU UKIP PARTY VOTES WILL STOP THEM getting a majority to organise a referendum.

Re Cameron: at least SHOULD he go there is plenty of talent with experience in government behind him. Farage’s crew couldn’t organise and run a pub crawl, never mind the country.

Ukip CV; ‘EU PROTESTERS’ on an MEP salary of £78,000 annual salary + Daily attendance Allowance + Staff Costs + £3,500 a month allowance to spend on basically what they want.

At least the protester called ‘Swampy’ didn’t take the piss pretending he had policies to run the country and take a taxpayers salary.

Spot on, LilyBolero. It's so sad, it's tragic.

They are squeezing ordinary people while the fat cats get 200% bonuses and the politicians get a pay rise and can claim for biscuits, crisps and bath plugs. It's pathetic.

Spectator editor Fraser Nelson tore into Cameron recently, saying he had only two modes of operation: crisis, or complacency. I reckon there is a lot of truth in that.

Cameron is safe until the majority of the Parliamentary party agree on a successor. No idea when that will be. And whoever it is may be more acceptable to the Parliamentary party than the electorate.

We are stung by 73% marginal rates of tax, from a so-called low-tax party. Dh hasn't had a payrise for 4yrs, but supposing he got a 1k payrise, £730 would go to the government, because of the child benefit reforms.