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Politics

Who should I vote for? My views seem to be all over the place.

80 replies

tobybox · 09/04/2014 12:38

None of the parties seem to represent anything near where my political views lie.

Could someone who is more clued up than me help me out?

My main views are:

  • NMW should rise dramatically, to a 'living wage', and the low threshold for tax should rise too. Tax hike for higher incomes and a slight raise for middle incomes (that would be me!) but with full tax visibility (so we can see where our taxes are being paid).
  • A much stricter cap on university places, but with the funding money saved on university expenditure, transfer this to apprenticeship/technical training schemes instead.
  • I am against free schools. I think they cause divisions within local communities in terms of religion/ethnicity discrimination etc. I am however in favour of academically selective grammar schools and independent schools. I would like to see the return of the Assisted Places Scheme.
  • I am in favour of HS2 and generally in favour of increased infrastructure & transport links, and wind power. I support First Buy schemes etc. but (and I don't know much about this) would support schemes to limit people buying up properties and then not living in them, to sell them at a profit later.
OP posts:
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ttosca · 16/04/2014 19:44

Yay!

GarlicAprilShowers · 13/04/2014 11:30

Good post, Spooney.

I've joined a party for the first time ever: Left Unity

"This is a new kind of party, with feminism, socialism and environmentalism at its heart. It’s a party that supports the campaigns and struggles of ordinary people, for public services, for equality, and for real democracy.

"We say no one should have to choose between heating and eating, no one should have to pay for their healthcare or education – and everyone should have a roof over their head. It’s that simple."

dailygrowl · 13/04/2014 04:14

typo: "variously represented by the different main parties." (I mean).

dailygrowl · 13/04/2014 04:13

Tobybox, you seem (like many) to have views which are variously represented by the different main parties represent. Just at a glance, they seem to be more Labour with a drop of Lib Dem. The immigration one could be more a case of changing the entire law rather than what each party does. (I thought UKIP definitely wanted a cap on immigration, which is opposite to what you're wanting). I guess you might have to pick which policies matter most to you and which party best represents or offers that?

LaSpooney · 12/04/2014 20:24

I can understand the general confusion and apathy regarding politics. It is very difficult to know who to vote for when the right wing press are so omnipresent, politicians from all parties break promises, lie and continually abuse their expenses and none of them seem to be able to commit to anything beyond sound bites and ill thought out excuses for policies. However, we have the right to vote. Historically and to this day people have (had) to fight for the right to vote and so we must vote as we are privileged to have the opportunity to make our voices heard. Otherwise known as democracy.

The NMW ought to be a living wage. In 1999 when it was brought in the right wing press bleated on about how so many small businesses were going to go out of business. They didn't. Their profits just weren't as big as they might have liked.

Child and working tax credits helped so many working families and continue to do so yet there are some of these same people benefiting from them who either don't know which government brought them in or have got so used to them they don't even care. In my line of work I see large numbers of ordinary household income and expenditure statements and large numbers of people the length and breadth of the country who are able to keep their heads above water or at least put food on the table due to those credits.

The NHS is on its knees. Cuts to funding, to staff, to entire departments, to budgets for life saving operations and treatments, all range of health services. E-rostering, use of agency staff, knee jerk reactions in place of basic management practices whilst more and more pressure is piled on, all against a background of having to save the trust several million this financial year. Increased waiting times and chaos in A&E and clinics. Sick people waiting longer and longer for operations. The postcode lottery dictating whether you can get treatment. No speech and language therapy if your child is autistic - why waste the money when they might not speak anyway. Yet still layer upon layer of pointless managers many of whom are still furthering their careers studying for MBA's paid for by the NHS. Of course, the Daily Express will say the NHS is struggling because of immigration. Presumably they are the same immigrants who are doctors in our hospitals, care workers for our elderly and disabled, cleaners in the hospitals etc.

Social care is in crisis. The vulnerable in our society who rely on community services are ignored and trampled over as yet another life line gets cut. Care staff having to choose whether to wash or feed people because of the ever ticking clock and cost of care. The bedroom tax pushing disabled people and their families further in to debt and poverty. Councils with no money to build smaller homes for those who don't need the extra room.

Education being pulled and pushed in different directions: academies with the purchasing power to focus on the private consultancies who can get them the Ofsted ticks in boxes or give them a seminar on high level bean counting; reduced SEN funding making inclusion even more of a financial burden for those head teachers who up until now have tried their utmost to focus on the children rather than the balance sheet; free schools - private schools paid for by the state and largely set up by people with no knowledge whatsoever of education but who want to feel a bit special (at the tax payers' expense!). Increased free school meals from September but without the kitchen facilities in the schools to produce the meals and no extra money for the LEA's to give the schools to improve the kitchens. Although the Torygraph will no doubt have a marvellous editorial from Michael Gove about his vision for the British Baccalaureate.

The legal system, meanwhile, is like the Ritz, "open to everyone". Employment Tribunal fees introduced to keep the workers in their place. How strange that there's been a 79% drop in claims since the fees were introduced last summer. So let's see, you get unfairly dismissed, you've lost your job and income but you've got to find £1350 just for fees plus more money if you want legal advice and representation rather than Googling (finger in the air time) and hoping you find the right law on t'internet. Further increases to court fees, so if someone owes you some money whether you are a small or large business or an individual, it will cost you even more just to issue the claim and recover what you are owed. Cuts to Legal Aid leaving devastated families having to battle their way through the court system often at the expense of children caught up in the middle of it all. Reductions to criminal legal fees. How can you be innocent until proven guilty if you can't even access legal representation? So the government is cutting Legal Aid and increasing all these court and tribunal fees, presumably to reduce public spending, yet the reality is that there are more and more litigants in person who have no idea how to present their case. The overburdened court system has ended up with judges spending more and more court time which they do not have, explaining the procedures to people with no legal training in a Court system which is crippled by closures, cuts to staff and budgets.

And then, of course, there's the state of the economy. How many years later do we still have to hear the blame being laid at Gordon Brown's door? (He'll be the tax credit bloke by the way) He happened to be the PM when the largest global financial crisis hit yet it's ok for George Osbourne to blame the global crisis for the state of the economy when his government is in power but for the last government it was Gordon's fault. That'll be the Daily Wail again. How on earth can the greed of the reckless, self interested, money grabbing excuses for human beings in some parts of the financial services and property sectors be his fault? What role exactly did he play in sub-prime mortgage lending in the United States? The arrogance and selfishness of the finance industry is so far removed from anything remotely close to a person like Gordon Brown. I remember a few years back reading a Defence form from some property developer bloke with a handful of buy to let residential properties who ended up in a bit of a mess when the crash happened. He didn't think one of his properties should be repossessed even though he was way behind on his mortgage payments because of the, and I quote, "one-eyed Scottish twat". Nothing to do with your greed during the boom years then? Of course, the last PM was vilified by the right wing press because he didn't take a great photo or have a snappy sound bite and often looked, well, awkward.

Still, if Dave says he's doing the right thing (for the one million six hundred and fifty nine thousand, eight hundred and thirty fourth time), we're to believe him. Listen, if Dave says this is right because he says so, put your finger in the fire.......

frumpity33higswash · 12/04/2014 11:28

Anyone but Tories and Lib-Dems

AlpacaYourThings · 11/04/2014 22:40

I would consider supporting someone to stand, I wouldn't be interested in standing myself, no.

Impatientismymiddlename · 11/04/2014 21:59

I'm in the same situation Anna I want to vote Green at the next election but there isn't a candidate in my area, either.

Would you stand as an independent for your area or get involved and support getting a green candidate?

cdwales · 11/04/2014 19:32

"But lets face it they are all a bunch of lying rich toffs, all parties included"
No actually they are not! The point is made above that it the right wing press try to persuade us not to exercise our hard won vote by repeating this lie. Having met quite a few MPs most are putting up with a lot of nastiness because of this anti-democracy campaign and very few can reasonably expect to exercise power! What decent person (woman?) in her right mind would enter the arena? We need accountability (though MPs are pretty public it is senior civil servants who get away with murder!) If we want gentler, kinder people making decisions (MN-ers?) we have to stop repeating this mantra and helping the powerful rich to undermine democracy...

unlucky83 · 11/04/2014 18:52

oblov there is a link to Uk parties 2010 on the home page LHS bottom and it shows you where the parties are - you'll be a green I think

Oblomov · 11/04/2014 17:22

I did the test. It said I was 'as Liberal as Ghandi'.

But I must have done something wrong, because it didn't tell Me which party to vote for. And that was what I really wanted.

AlpacaYourThings · 11/04/2014 15:43

I'm in the same situation Anna I want to vote Green at the next election but there isn't a candidate in my area, either.

AnnaLegovah · 11/04/2014 15:07

I just did the quiz on the voteforpolicies link and to my surprise came out almost completely Green Party - unfortunately there IS no green party in my area nor will there be anytime soon.

This is what's wrong with politics in my opinion - a party I would vote for but can't as there's no candidate here.

flashmob · 11/04/2014 14:49

Agree with WhizzF that Political Compass is really revealing www.politicalcompass.org/

pumpkinsweetie · 11/04/2014 12:37

Going to vote labour because I have too. But lets face it they are all a bunch of lying rich toffs, all parties included.

Russell Brand would run the country better than the whole lot of them put together imho.

And don't get me started on ukip, racists hiding behind a sheild. They are not just here to tackle immigration....

ClockWatchingLady · 11/04/2014 12:18

Unless Russell Brand gets a party together in time, I'm going to have to spoil my ballot paper. I have (very reluctantly) reached the conclusion that most of the factors meaningfully affecting people's lives are beyond the government. Even if we do believe the shit they promise pre-election.

Impatientismymiddlename · 11/04/2014 08:38

Who else can I vote for but UKIP? And writing them off universally as racists is totally lazy,

I agree that it is lazy, a better description would be xenophobic and homophobic.

AlpacaYourThings · 11/04/2014 00:46

I've just read the Green Party policies and I agree with every single one!

I would never have considered voting for them before, it's highly unlikely they would ever get in though Sad

AlpacaYourThings · 11/04/2014 00:41

I might vote Green. Doubt it will make any difference!

lessonsintightropes · 10/04/2014 23:40

I can't vote Tory because they are cunts who want to get rid of poor people.

I can't vote Labour because they are war mongering cunts who pay lip service to helping poor people and I have no idea what they will actually do other than copy the Tories.

I can't vote Lib Dem because they lie and go back on promises like tuition fees.

I can't vote Green because no one else will and they have no chance of giving the complacent big three a shock.

Who else can I vote for but UKIP? And writing them off universally as racists is totally lazy, but happy to join in on discussion of their policy deficit.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 10/04/2014 22:01

I have always voted Labour but I rather like our current MP Theresa May! Think she would be a better PM than Cameron too.

And I just cannot bring myself to give any support to Ed Milliband.

WhizzFucker · 10/04/2014 21:04

Enjoyed the political compass website. Did people see this -

UK political parties plotted on the same graph (so you can see which is closest to you)

So mumsnet is a hotbed of leftwing libertarians (as I suspect are most groups of regular nice people) - when do we get to be in charge?

voddiekeepsmesane · 10/04/2014 20:19

The Op is the very reason that I think that rather going into a coalition I would have preferred an issue by issue vote in the house after the last election. No one party holds the views of many people. Peoples views about individual matters change left to right depending on the issue. Maybe FPTP is not the answer anymore. Then again the British public spoke when given the chance not long ago and kept it Hmm

Impatientismymiddlename · 10/04/2014 20:16

Blair, Brown and Cameron all have the parent's perspective necessarily and I have liked them and trusted them better for it.

I agree with most of what you said, but Cameron's parenting policies have really disappointed me, especially the ones that have had a negative impact on families with disabled children. As a man who had a disabled child I expected better of him, but I suppose when you have paid help and pots of cash you don't really understand what it is like for ordinary families with disabled children.

Astonway · 10/04/2014 19:31

It is really heartening to read the above! The prevalence of nasty insulting messages on news websites is depressing...MNers are a cut above.
I am a Politics graduate and was CEO of a people charity before Sjogren's laid me low - but I have been an election teller and vote counter in recent years and seen democracy in action.

My commitment is to democracy - people ought to use their vote!
Ever since poorer men and then wimmin too won the vote the powerful oligarchs (it is not just Russia who has these men pulling strings) have concentrated on trying to persuade these people not to bother voting 'as politicians are all as bad as each other'. Whenever you see that point of view someone somewhere is rubbing their hands in glee! (If you want to know who they are the guest list at Margaret Thatcher's funeral would be a good starting point!)

Other tactics are to hound opposition politicians - worryingly appealing ones such as Kinnock and Blair - to put people off voting for the opposition. Their third tactic is bribery - taxes and of course immigration (though they have just been outflanked on that of course).
As a charity CEO I met a number of politicians at ministerial and shadow ministerial levels and thought them all decent people who clearly had a commitment and a toughness to be in politics. In all the interviews I gave to newspapers not one resulting article was error free. And TV is blindsided by their deadlines and need for 'an angle'.
The reality is that our democracy should really be called a 'Bureaucratic Democracy' as perforce most of the decisions and policies etc are made by faceless civil servants. And as 'Yes Minister' showed us they also control what the Ministers get to see - if they can. Yet the person who bowed to the renderers' pressure and signed the document allowing them to treat offal at lower temperatures - saving vast sums in energy costs - was responsible for CJD. S/he probably read Classics at Oxford and was no scientist. Now s/he is retired with a generous pension and an Honour (and these days a bonus payment too!).
Bottom line is that whoever is elected has to face 'Events' and do their best. Only a small part of the work of government involves significant choice - especially with Treasury in attack dog mode.

Now the present PM is really not popular with the tory party oligarchs who are livid that he went into coalition with the LibDems. You may have noticed their hounding of Nick Clegg in the media? The reason for this is that, with Lib Dems at the table, the PM has in effect seen off the oligarchs who chose him as an attractive 'Blair-type' whose strings they could pull. Instead they have a PM who is playing it his way! they are out of the loop. So in my view, the Lib Dems have done the country a big favour yet they are paying a heavy price.

To put my cards on the table - if you have stuck with me thus far - personally I am not content with the male-dominated adversarial system that has evolved. I doubt it is able to address the complex issues facing us today in anything like an effective way. More female MPs and PM/Ministers with young children is a marvellous development though! Blair, Brown and Cameron all have the parent's perspective necessarily and I have liked them and trusted them better for it.

Civil servants must be more accountable - why should our elected reps take the blame for their mistakes? That alone puts a lot of good people off entering politics.
Coalition government would seem to be the best way forward. And when the first ministerial appointment is made on the basis of the best person for the job I will raise a glass. (When that does happen I predict it will be a woman and the task she faces will be so challenging no man would take it on - eg during the expected lethal viral pandemic when it explodes and the rich and powerful run for cover).

So really think through what matters most to you, always question in your own mind motives for arguments you hear, judge character and integrity (people in all parties vary) but whatever you do VOTE. Then pray for a fair wind for our country in the years ahead. Thanks

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