EU Elections 2014; time to finally vote for the BEST MEP candidates?

No, you are missing the point of this post; we are currently in the EU and as the Lisbon Treaty signed by Brown ensures most EU laws are UK laws, by law – so whether the Lib Dems play with a rubber stamp, or rubber anything else, this is where we are and there is NOTHING UKIP CAN DO ABOUT IT, by law.

The correct role of a MEP in my opinion, is to CURRENTLY try and use their position within the EU parliament to make push for sensible reforms to reduce the uber fat, bureaucratic, inefficient, unsustainable, state mentality that virtually every member state should want, as it costs each country less and makes them more competitive in the world.

This is important, as the ONLY WAY the UK will come out of the EU, is via the Referendum the Conservatives want, and only political party that CAN force one through. Otherwise we BY LAW will remain a filly signed up EU member.

So the LAST thing we need is MORE Ukip MEP’s; because:

Ukip are so anti EU they are in no ideological position to achieve anything of benefit to the UK now, or if we have to stay in

Ukip can not bring us out of the EU, despite their implied claims

Ukip MEP’s are therefore not fit for purpose in representing the UK, so therefore less useful to this nation than a very expensive, taxpayer’s, chocolate tea pot

In conclusion, for the sake of the UK, it matters not who you vote for in April, as long as it is NOT Ukip – and as a similar 28% Wythenshawe electoral turnout will allow Ukip a seat by default – people need to vote.

P.S. What is clear to me, is that both politicians and posters on boards like this, are peddling mistruths and misinformation.

From Miliband hypocritically blaming the coalition for the problems left by New Labour, with only huge debts to fix them, to Ukip pretending that they are an alternative to anything, including the false claim that votes for them will bring the UK out of the EU.

What I am looking to do is STRENGTHEN political debates by providing facts and figures that float my boat. Frankly in most parts of the UK, where Labour could take each families first born and the parents would still vote for them, I’m not looking to influence who people vote for – but at least know the truth when voting for a party, and why voting is so important, as apathy can let a numpty in to represent your area, by default.

Spin……let me try and answer your points, as you don’t seem to understand the record of those you say your non policies are the answer to AND what Cameron is currently doing within the EU.

On EU reform, let us remember that the EU is an unsustainable socialist monster that was allowed to grow during ‘the good times’, and where hugely expensive bureaucracy and red tape will tie one hand behind the back of our businesses in a competitive world. Where unlike low business/personal taxes Far East countries, European States offered huge pensions and social security unsustainable in ‘the good times’, will now have to be ‘reformed’.

Look my point is, the EU needs to reform or slowly die under its own regulatory and financial burden – so if they don’t want to reform fast enough, then so be it – but whatever progress Cameron makes with near bankrupt Staes that need to save money e.g. like already reducing the EU budget, gets put to the people WHO THEN DECIDE.

On Tory members, what is this preoccupation of Ukip with their Membership over political substance, like thick football fans bragging down the pub? The Conservative Party has over 300 parliamentary seats, UKip has a big fat ZERO, and was around 26,000 votes across around 20 key marginals in getting a parliamentary majority. I have been a Conservative voter from way before Farage became an oil trader, but I would NEVER become a Member, what is the point, I can do more damage to Ukip half-wits on the internet, than sitting in a Tory Office going ‘ya, ya, wine bar’. If I’d cared, I’d look up how many of the old farts that were members have died over the past few years, but parliamentary seats count, and we’ll see in 2015.

On Tory policies, silly micro issues just prove Ukip posters ignorance of BIG PICTURE stuff that defines a successful country. Personal income tax rates in 1979 started at 32p, then 68p I believe. Tax on unearned income (from investments) was 90 odd % and should any business manage to make a profit in the pre Thatcher economic death spiral of 20% inflation/wages, the Corporate Tax Rate was 50% - and all these come down over Conservative administrations to stimulate MORE tax growth, so they are the PROVEN party of lower taxes for all.

Re the taxes for the rich, they are paying MORE under the Coalition, than Labour in 2010 OR Ukip, who proposed a Flat rate income tax and national Insurance of 32p, to help the oil traders of the world. The raising of top rate tax to 50p after 13-years in office by Labour, they budgeted would bring in £4-5 billion, brought in £100 million – and as one of the highest rates in the world, discouraged inward investment who’s company decision makers would have to pay it.

As for the size of the tax sapping State, which should be around 40% of any country’s economy but became 54% under Labour, the Tories from Thatcher on have believed it should be as big as it NEEDS to be – so ‘the people’ keep more of their own earnings in order to save or afford their own choices e.g. private pensions.

Conservative administration records show, they are PRO lower taxes & increased savings and ANTI uncontrolled public sector hiring (1 million from 1997 to 2010) anti uncontrolled/unsustainable rising benefits through a boom in employment, anti uncontrolled immigration, anti dumbing down childrens education, anti 90% of police at any time sitting on bums in stations, anti C.Diff germs in hospitals, anti annually living beyond this countries means, anti National debt and anti socialist politicians who believed in ALL of the above.

Those basic economic building blocks, proven to grow an economy, is what Conservative politicians have proven whilst in office, and that clearly uniformed Ukip ‘members’ ridiculously call ‘letting the nation down’, while without even one seat in Westminster, amateurishly and opportunistically, flip flopping policies to pretend they are an ‘alternative’ to Conservative success stories.

Look, I don’t agree with everything the Tories do, BUT IN REALITY, come 2015 either the Labour Party or Conservative Party will form the next government, and if people chose to vote Ukip and let in Labour, then so be it – but they should remember than in 2010, unlike 1979, no one saw where tax rates were going to go to fund fat government and ever growing benefits etc, Labour despicably chose to hide the increase taxes (and some cuts) they promised in their 2010 manifesto.

But this has all has nothing to do with this thread and the MEP elections in April this year; the fact is Ukip cannot bring the UK out of the EU so is promoting a lie to get votes.

Flatpack…I give facts, you talk about windmills, let the readers decide.

The Conservative (and Cameron’s) view on the EU is clear, the previous Common Market before this Federal Europe nonsense that mainly happened from the late 1990’s, was fine and they would like the UK to remain within a REFORMED EU, with less of the excesses we all know about. Keeping up so far?

However, they are the only party who CAN or will ALLOW THE PEOPLE TO DECIDE, via a YES/NO referendum, so it matters not a jot what Cameron, or any other Tories personal opinion is, or how they would campaign before hand.

Frankly speaking, I think I’m fairly well read up on most political issues, but I don’t have a clue of the true benefits to the UK of being in the EU, so I want to see the debate, with ON BALANCE all the pros and cons. My current unreformed view is a ‘no’, so only a lot of bleedin EU benefits that I don’t currently see, could sway me.

So as Ukip is just a pimple on the ass of democracy, with nothing to offer on the EU but expensive and ineffectual protests, but could easily derail the possibility of a referendum by taking Conservative votes again - it’s damn straight I detest the Ukip rabbles lies and Farage’s pimply ass because this is not a game of silly boys, it’s our, our children’s and their children’s futures.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/7693877/General-Election-2010-Ukip-challenge-cost-Tories-a-Commons-majority.html

As for that last paragraph, you are talking complete rollocks, as the polls show a narrowing to the only other party that will form a government in 2015, and as for our 2010 manifesto, all our core beliefs that turned around the UK economy in 1979 are current policies – and if any due to the Lib Dem coalition had to be ‘traded’, that was the price of Ukips votes in 2010, on a general election manifesto Farage now calls “drivel”.

In conclusion even if the 2015 general election was not going to define this nation prosperity for decades to come, I can not respect Ukip or anyone who knows they are a sham who support them, as they prey on the political ignorance of people – and exposing the futility of sending Ukip MEPs to Europe in April this year, is my contribution to both my children and this nation – call it my personal crusade.

Firstly, why does someone who successfully cuts through the Ukip lies and claims have to be from Conservative central office; for what it is worth, I have never been involved in politics (other than one year put leaflets through front doors when incumbent Labour has a small majority) but I follow politics closely – and if Ukip’s aim is to AGAIN take votes/seats from the Conservatives, they have to be prepared for the scrutiny, and what’s wrong with that – other than to deflect from Ukip’s substance?

And on that note, clearly by your own admission, Ukip has no mechanism to take the UK out of the EU, but the Conservatives do, especially if they have a majority in parliament – via the Parliament Act.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100251428/this-changes-everything-david-cameron-will-ram-the-inout-referendum-through-using-the-parliament-act/

As for the “value” of Farage you mention, is Ukip really worth £2 million plus in expenses claims to fund a political party’s MEPs who do not respect the job, or clearly the European Parliament they are attending, to represent UK taxpayers and regional interests?
www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/apr/20/ukip-meps-misused-eu-allowances

As for the mind numbing mantra about the failure of the other parties; Farage tells us that Ukip doesn’t have any policies, they have “a blank piece of paper” coming into the 2015 General Election, and can’t take us out of the EU, if Ukip (full of god knows what) isn’t a political “non entity”, what is?
www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

OMG…clearly “performing well in the European Parliamentary Election is the (UKIP) objective”, but why do you think voters are sending EU hating Ukip MEP’s on a tax payer hugely expensive European Parliamentary jollie, if NOT due their ‘Ukip would get you out’ rhetoric – as it’s certainly not to represent their regional interests?

Which goes back to my opening post’s point, as if the Tories fail to get through both chambers in parliament a referendum to give people a yes/no vote, as there is no other mechanism to leave the EU, forget ‘protest voting’, people should get out there and vote for the best candidate to represent them.

Therefore common sense has to question electing/sending anyone from the United Kingdom Independence Party to the European Parliament, as their objective is in their party’s name and can not be trusted to represent any UK region.

Typical Ukip deflection, answer the question - if every MEP in April was (in the polls lead) Ukip, or even if every damn UK MEP was a EU hating Ukip MEP, could they bring the UK out of Europe, as per their promise over the years - or was it a lie?

Spinflight….firstly let us remember that this thread is about the MEP elections this April, and so when talking about Ukip, let us examine why Ukip are currently tipped to win most MEP seats – rather than puerile name calling aimed at the established political parties, as a deflection to Ukips lack of ‘substance’.

Your accusations against me about being “rude and shoutey” and a part of the Conservative political machinery when I am just giving you facts over Ukips ‘pub style over substance’, just shows typical far right wing bullying which we have seen throughout Europe for many decades

But frankly if I was a Members of UKip, such as yourself, I would be (falsely) claiming that they are both a credible alternative to the establish parties and could bring the UK out of the EU if I had nothing else – especially as Farage has called your last General Election manifesto “drivel” – Farage’s word, not any of the established parties HQ..
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

But of course Ukip cannot bring the UK out of the EU, and the fact that millions believe that you can, says more about Ukip’s disingenuous internet battering of promises that they cannot keep and spreading dissatisfaction with the other parties, than the numbers that have voted for you.

So as Ukip current General Election policies have been disowned by Farage, which I’d guess included HS2 (as in 2010 you wanted to electrify 3 new train lines in and around the north), let us concentrate on the MEP elections in April this year – as per this thread.

So tell this board honestly, if Europe hating Ukip took every MEP seat in the April election, giving all those Ukip MEP’s a £182k plus annual remuneration package, regarding their promise to bring the UK out of the EU, will Ukip be able to do it, YES or NO?

So many words, so little to actually offer - as for the 2017 referendum, as you say elsewhere, Cameron can force it through, although somewhat unconstitutional, but watch that space.

Does being a 'protest vote' on the EU make Ukip a bona-fida party - without one parliamentary MP - and MEP's who ignorantly just 'stick it to the man' to justify that £2 million?

In an EU where only a Tory referendum can give the UK voters a say, and Ukip make a Tory majority highly unlikely in 2015, how are rude MEP's in Europe "promoting our interests"?

So explain to me on here how 'the one-trick-pony-party' is ACTUALLY going to get the Uk out of the EU - to point out how they will not fail in their one CURRENT policy?