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Politics

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ Group 3

61 replies

AnnMumsnet · 26/07/2013 15:06

Many thanks for agreeing to take part in this closed discussion thread. As you'll know, you all have an individual user name, separate to your on-site profile. So please feel free to be as open and frank as you like, without your views being read-across to your site profile.

The aim of these discussions is to discover if, how and why women's voting intentions are shifting and what you think about each of the party leaders.

We'll ask a few questions, allow you to think them over, respond, engage in a bit of discussion with other participants, and then we will pop back on the thread. We might want to tease out the reasons behind particular views or opinions and then will crack on with the next set of questions (on Thursday) and one more set over the weekend. Do feel free to re visit the thread at any point over the next week or so. We'll email you when we add a new set of questions.

Here are the questions to get you started

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?

Why?

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

Why?
Why not?

Feel free to include any thoughts you might have - they don't have to be the conventional, just true to how you feel!

OP posts:
delegate320 · 02/08/2013 00:06
  1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.

First of all David Cameron? - Has not got a clue. I work in education and he is an accomplice to the current dismantling of the state education system. I also work very little with a DH who earns a good wage and the idea that we could have our child benefit cut even though people who earn more than us as a couple keep their child benefit is just ridiculous. Before he was prime minister I thought he would be better than he has been but he is in an ivory tower unaware of the damage his party is doing.

And then Nick Clegg? - Much happier with him but he has no real power.

And then Ed Miliband? - I think he is making a good effort but has not got the umph to put anything concrete in place.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

  1. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally? First of all David Cameron? - As prime minister he should really make a better effort of having more women in prominent positions and his attitude towards women talking in parliament has been appalling.

And then Nick Clegg? - Again they have so little actual power but I hope they have learnt from the allegations they have recently faced.

And then Ed Miliband? - I always felt that the Labour party did make an effort to get women into prominent positions

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

  1. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

Either the Lib Dems or the Labour. The Conservatives are only interested in taking care of rich, white men in my opinion.

delegate311 · 01/08/2013 22:25

delegate322 You're right that there is a major gender imbalance in the civil service to, but in my experience when a minisiter says 'jump' even senior civil servants say 'how high?'

delegate311 · 01/08/2013 22:23

So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
Not a clue

And then Nick Clegg?
Not a clue

And then Ed Miliband?
Not a clue

I'm surprised that anyone puts any trust in whether they understand the lives of the majority of people in the country. They are surrounded by affluence and priviledge.

I could only think of Nigel Farrage and I'm afraid the little I've heard of/from him has not inspired great confidence, I tink he's my most likely candidate for who has lads mags next to the loo (I once really worked in an office like that).

how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
First of all David Cameron?
I'm not impressed by the representation of women in cabinet, so shame on DC.

And then Nick Clegg?
minus points for Nick for replacing a female lib dem cabinet member (Sarah Teather, who I also doubt would have tried to cut staffing at nurseries) with his best buddy (David Laws) even though he is doing some work on trying to improve education for "disadvantaged" pupils.

And then Ed Miliband?
Afraid I have no idea, has he just peered Mrs Lawrence though? Thumbs up on that one :)

As for Nige I don't think he actually knows who is in his political party.

Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

I suppose I most trust the lib dems because at least they are in favour of self determination. I have some serious doubts about the unions' sanity which is why I can't say labour. And I would least trust the Conservatives because they simply seem to see everything in terms of market forces, this is a complicated world and it is not so easy to say if the businesses make more profits everything will be wonderful.

delegate322 · 01/08/2013 22:14
  1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.

Another one a bit unsure of the 'women like you'. If it helps I am a mother of 3 (soon to be 4) and I work full time in what I guess would be classed as a 'professional' role.

First of all David Cameron - He manages to say what should be all the right things but I can't get past his delivery. I find him patronising and smarmy and I cannot believe he is sincerely interested in issues such as childcare. Although on reflection why do I jump straight to issues of childcare? I am interested in lots of issues, most of which have nothing to do with children. I think on any issue his delivery would put me off!

And then Nick Clegg - Nick Clegg seems much more in tune to issues faced by working mothers. He seems sincere and a hands on parent himself.

And then Ed Miliband - another one who loses me with his delivery, I cannot relate to him at all and I have no idea what he stands for or who he represents.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I like Tim Farron, I'd like to see him lead the Lib Dems in future and I think he'd do a good job.

  1. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally

Realistically how much power do party leaders have in this area? The entire parliamentary system in Britain comes across as very 'old boys network' but isn't this as much to do with the civil service? Party leaders can, and probably do, foster talented female politicians but I think we need to wait for a whole generation of male civil servants to move on before women will have anything like a reasonable chance to be heard in British politics.

  1. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

The Lib Dems, for their general ethos but also their stance on specific issues such as childcare ratios.

delegate319 · 01/08/2013 21:36

So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.

DC: if you meet his version of a family unit, he understands you. What he doesn't get is me - the squeezed middle. Can't afford to give up work, but childcare is crippling, and the loss of CB is just another blow.
NC: he doesn't really have much choice, but having back tracked on some of his election promises (tuition fees??) I'm not sure he understands. He caves on things. Makes me think of "No, DS you can't have another icecream, No DS, you really can't have another icecream, Oh, here you go"
EM the fact that I actually struggle to distinguish between him and his brother, he's not really made an impact on me.

and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally

ALL difficult to tell what is actually putting the right person in the right place, and how much is making the numbers balance - ie as many women as possible. I think the amount of comments on MN complaining, or even fearful of policies coming in perhaps points out they aren't listening, or aren't explaining why the incoming austerity measures are the best, and what else has been considered and rejected.
One of the few things I can think of being applauded is the rejection of the relaxation in childcare ratios - so I guess Clegg is understanding working mothers the most.

Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

Not sure I trust any party to look after my interests. However, I'd be very worried if BNP, or some of the other "Britain should be for the white British only" came in. That would be my husband, kids, and inlaws booted out.

delegate305 · 01/08/2013 14:39

I was really pleased about Clegg's stance on the ratios issue, and I think that this is a good example of him bringing balance to the coalition.

delegate315 · 01/08/2013 13:57

I think that both David Cameron and Nick Clegg make a point of appearing to listen to women. We see little of this from Ed Milliband. However it is hard to know whether it makes any real difference to policies. Most policies are not male/ female specific.

Silly mistakes are made, eg the 'calm down dear' comment although to be fair I think they are equally rude to the male politicians. Some women, eg Theresa May, seem to have a strong voice.

I think Nick Clegg tries to be more family-friendly, eg in opposing the relaxation of staff: child ratios in nurseries, but ultimately all the politicians are going to be more affected by the costs than the demographics.

delegate305 · 01/08/2013 13:28

Oh, and quite off the topic but all this policitics chat is certainly making an impression on my suggestible mind - I actually dreamt about Cameron last night, got to be the first time that has happened!

delegate305 · 01/08/2013 13:26

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I am also a bit Hmm about the use of "women like you". I am no more in favour of this lumping together than I am about women being marginalised. And some issues which concern me actually don't really affect me personally, but that doesn't mean that they are not important to me. But anyhow:
DC - This whole child benefit palava and legal aid cuts dramatically affect women more than men, so I would have to say not doing so well.
NC - much better
EM - I must admit that I don't really know that much about him, but I don't think he has an understanding about the issues and concerns of women like me, having more concern for the working class male, but please forgive me for that ill informed gut feeling

2) and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?
DC - that calm down dear quote probably riles many
NC - probably takes account of what is being said, but I am not sure any party makes sure women are heard, not so that I am aware of anyway.
EM - no real idea

3) Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

Probably lib dem, for the best offerings at fairness and equality overall, not sure about the worst but the intolerance of UKIP or BNP probably hints at concerns in this area.

.

delegate308 · 01/08/2013 11:52

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

as mentioned a few times previously, I HATE Cameron with such venom that although not a naturally violent person, I want to pound his smug shiny face in with a brick every time I see him on TV. I think he has set women back about 30 years - he seems to think that we all need to be married to naice men and everything would be great. His lack of compassion to women who are single (not necessarily through choice) and particularly those in a caring role is dispicable.
Clegg I dont really see too much. He seems to be hiding in the background and tentatively trying to put his hand up to be heard. I secretly hope he is lying low and plotting an overthrow, but I doubt it. I feel he is genuine in his beliefs though, and one of the few I would trust.
Ed Milliband just seems a bit not quite all there. I always get the impression that he's just been handed a piece of paper with what to say on it, and seems a bit surprised by it. I am not sure I trust the strength of his convictions yet, and I dont know how 'real' labour vs 'new' labour the party stand. I think he has more of an understanding than Cameron though.

2) and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I think Cameron listens because he has to be seen to, but Im not sure I believe that he takes a huge notice of what they say unless he can create a good soundbite about it. Policies speak louder than any nice words.
Nick I believe in
Ed not quite decided.

3) Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

Lib Dems, because they come from a stance of liberalism and equality and have historically had strong women within their (many renamed) parties

delegate317 · 01/08/2013 10:50

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Slightly unnerved by the 'women like me' - not sure which of my many hats this applies to! Let's just take working mother in reasonably high-powered job struggling to be all things to all people.
DC Would probably understand where I was coming from but, fairly, might assume that I was capable of looking after myself and my own.
NC Probably similar to DC
EM Different planet

2) and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

DC May be doing better than the Media give him credit for, but needs to do more to inspire women to stand so that their voice can be louder within the Conservative Party.
NC Get the impression the he is pretty gender-blind, Conference looks as if it is fairly evenly split
EM Get the feeling he'll listen if it gives a party-political point scoring opportunity.

  1. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why? Most LibDem, simply because it is the most open to listening and acting on inequality in all its manifestations. Least - Labour - unless it gives point/vote scoring benefit. There seems to be a complete vacuum of actual policy creation.
delegate317 · 01/08/2013 10:33

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?
Important in that the leader should personify the values and be able to express them clearly, coherently and consistently. Image, rather than substance, though, has come far too far to the fore.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?
A good party leader can only be so if they inspire the membership to follow them. A good party leader has to be one who remembers the old adage that you been given two ears and one mouth so use them in that proportion - which helps to build trust, the bedrock of a stable relationship. A good leader will chair internal and sometimes external discussion and form an informed opinion within the inherent ethos of the party principles. They need to have a balance between people skills and the authority to say "This is what we think and stand for". Sometimes they need to be able to get to this latter stage quickly and efficiently, even if they might bruise a few egos on the way.
A good Prime Minister needs to be able to consider the detail (individual impacts of policy decisions) and the macro implications, beyond the term of office for which their party has been elected.
We do have a problem in that physical image has become over important in the election process. Someone whose appearance or voice offends or annoys can no longer get themselves elected when so much depends on media performance. Sadly this means that inspirational politicians of real conviction are already an endangered species. You only have to look back a few decades to see this happening and how public perception through media imagery has produced such as 'same-y' set.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

No, I'm a LibDem on principle (well, really more of a West Country Liberal). There will always be phases where I'm out of line with party thinking on particular issues, but at least I know that if I feel strongly I can go to conference as an individual, put my case and have it evaluated. I am far from convinced that this would be the case in other political parties where vested interests predominate.

AnnMumsnet · 01/08/2013 09:43

Thanks for answering the first questions: some really interesting feedback. Now we want to try to what you really think about the specific leaders.

  1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
    First of all David Cameron?
    And then Nick Clegg?
    And then Ed Miliband?
    What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

  2. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
    First of all David Cameron?
    And then Nick Clegg?
    And then Ed Miliband?
    What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

  3. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

thanks again - we will add some more questions for the weekend.

OP posts:
delegate308 · 31/07/2013 22:22

Blair was so smug and smarmy he made me sick, but I positively froth at the mouth if I see either Cameron or Osbourne, and start swearing under my breath.

delegate313 · 31/07/2013 21:03

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?

I would say it's fairly important, but not so important that I would change my vote entirely. It might be enough to sway me between two parties with similar politics.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

A good leader should be genuine, straightforward (as straightforward as a politician gets!) and charismatic. They should be someone who inspires confidence, someone who can make a great speech and someone who really believes in their policies.

A bad leader could be either end of the scale - woolly and weak or overpowering and cold. I want to support someone who is personable.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

No, it hasn't. I voted LibDem at the last election and I would do the same next time. They aren't perfect, but they are the only party who come close to representing my views.

I think they were unfairly burdened with a lot of the failings of the coalition, and I believe that without them, the actions of the Tories would have been much more unforgiving.

delegate312 · 31/07/2013 10:11

I'm liking the William Hague idea! In truth I haven't heard of a lot of the other ministers and shadow cabinet but I have heard of him at least. I do think that a younger leader is more electable. Was it Ming Campbell that lead the Lib Dems for a time? A nice chap and all that, but old. I really loved Paddy Ashdown, his style was quite no-nonsense and I appreciated his honesty. Brown was so boring and I couldn't watch him on TV as his jaw did this 'drop' after each sentence. DH used to mock it something chronic. Blair was too slick. I need to go and see who is in the main government positions and see what I think about them all now!

delegate320 · 30/07/2013 23:48

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision? Why?

As with any organisation the person at the top has a great influence in the whole organisation so the leader plays an important part in my decision.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

I do think charisma has a huge influence on how I feel about a leader. I want to see someone with passion, who says things that I agree with, who is honest and trustworthy, who does not allow the secretaries of state to follow their own bandwagon, who has the confidence to stick to things they believe in but the good sense of when to change their minds. A bad one is weak but on the other hand a bad one is also so arrogant that they stick to a policy even though it is so evidently unfair.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

Why?
Why not?

I have always voted Lib Dem (except when we moved to an area where lib dem could not win so I voted 'against' the conservatives) Although I have been less than impressed with how Nick Clegg 'jumped into bed' with the conservatives and how I think the lib dems have been damaged by the coalition I am passionately anti conservative and labour have no chance in our area.

delegate302 · 30/07/2013 22:22

312 I agree with your synopsis on the leaders entirely. I have a feeling we are all going to be fairly similar in opinion due to the excellent grouping skills at MNHQ.

Do you who I would like to see in charge. William Hague. I really really like him. And he could turn me Tory as I tend to agree with him a lot. Isn't he doing a lot of work with women's rights in India? Very intelligent and amiable man in my opinion.

delegate312 · 30/07/2013 22:06

Interesting that so many of us on here seem in agreement, at least on the qualities the leaders should have. Which brings me to ask, do the current leaders of the parties have those qualities? I admit that I am a bit out of touch on politics as I have been unable to watch/read the news for 9 months, pregnancy turned me into an emotional wreck who couldn't handle anything upsetting. But it does mean that I am very much in a position of 'innocence' over the leaders.

DC: I don't dislike him. I think at the moment he is the best of a 'meh' bunch (very good assessment there 318). But I struggle with the posh background. He is very popular locally though, I live about 15 miles from Witney and my goodness, don't they get a kick out of him being PM. I worked in Witney when he was elected PM and that was enough to make me rebel. Childish, I know.

NC: I really liked his demeanour through the live debates before the 2010 elections. He came across as sincere and educated without being snobbish. I agree that he has become a whipping boy for all that is wrong with government and it is unfair. But still there's something missing. Maybe a feeling that the party around him is just not capable.

EM: I couldn't believe it when Ed was elected leader. He struck me as so weak compared to his brother, who was far more charismatic and electable. But the very fact that there were siblings involved put me off, the whole political culture and old boy network looming large. I couldn't vote Labour simply because they say they stand for things that are different to the Tories, but they all come from privilege. I felt the same about Blair. YYY to slimeball!

Sorry if that's off on a tangent. I'm loving that this is making me think about it all though, I feel like I need to know more about what's going on in the world again!

delegate306 · 30/07/2013 21:53

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?

The leader is important, but is not the be all and end all; the manifesto and policies are also very important. I am in Scotland, and I have to be honest and say that the leaders of the main political parties in Scotland all leave something to be desired...

Why?

Because you are voting for them to be Prime Minister and lead the country so clearly their personal qualities are important, but the party's politics themselves provide the backbone for their leadership

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

Integrity, consistency and charisma are important characteristics. A bad leader would be inconsistent, vain and megalomaniacal (is that a word??) A good prime minister has the interests of their country at heart, not their own interests.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?
Why?
Why not?

Yes. I voted Lib Dem and will be unlikely to do so again, as they have allowed themselves to be overly influenced and led by the conservatives.

delegate312 · 30/07/2013 21:44

Adding my initial thoughts without looking at others, will go back after!

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision? Why?
Relatively important, in that I have to feel that I trust them, that they seem to embody the values the party has and they are able to convey those qualities effectively. However the policies that the party has would carry more weight overall. I am also very careful to consider who the local MP is as they will ideally know why I am concerned about specific issues. One of the party leaders is also the MP for a neighbouring constituency to mine and does seem to overshadow things locally, but that will probably come up later!

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

I want someone I can respect, that has integrity and doesn't just spend their time mudslinging. Someone with charisma and gravitas, who won't be laughed at on an international stage. Someone who really seems to believe in their party and policies even if they don't necessarily match with mine. Mainly I would like someone who has had a career and life outside of politics. So many leaders and MPs now are professional politicians and I'm not convinced they really understand how things are in the real world. Anyone who bows and scrapes to the Americans needs a smack.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed? Why?

I voted Lib Dem. Labour have no real support locally and I always felt quite distant from the Tories. I have always voted Lib Dem. When the coalition was formed I thought it would be a good thing, that some of the more extreme Tory policies would be curbed and a bit more moderation introduced. But they seem to have been ignored, pushed to one side and policies that were essentially 'Lib Dem' have been entirely overturned, in some cases. So now, I don't know. If there was an election tomorrow I don't know how I would vote. I disagree with a lot of Tory policies, I dislike Labour and their leader just riles me, and the Lib Dems have shown that for whatever reason, they don't carry the weight in government that perhaps I hoped they would. I don't have any time for UKIP or the greens. I'm probably very open to suggestion!

delegate311 · 30/07/2013 21:40

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision? Why?

Until recently, I would have always said that the personality of the potential prime minister was paramount, because I would have wanted someone with some integrity as the leader of the country. Knowing that the person at the end of the batphone (they have one of those right?) was someone that I could trust to make the best decision.

I've recently begun to realise, through work, the amount of autonomy that key ministers are given over their departments (unless they screw up). I will be looking closely at the education, health and work/benefits policies in 2015, as the key players in the potenial cabinet will be showing their colours through those pledges.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one?
Echoing what others have said, from my perspective a good party leader is able to communicate both the specifics and spirit of the direction they would take the country in. Conversely, a bad one would either lie through their teeth or simply be unable to get across what they mean to do. From the party's perspective I suppose they need to be able to mediate factions negotiate with rivals and give a good speech.

What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

In addition to masses of integrity, I genuinely think a good measure of gravitas helps. Worryingly, the party leaders are most likely to be able to show this if they are already prime minister.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed? Why? Why not?

I have never stuck to a particular party and wouldn't join one on principle, so I genuinely don't know who I voted for in 2010. I'm in a pretty safe Labour seat anyway, so I think it probably depends on whether I was more concerned about keeping the far right down or whether I was persuaded to change the status quo.

I noticed that quite a lot of you voted lib dem, I think I must say that though a lot of people have bashed Nick Clegg for cooperating with the Conservatives, I think he honestly believed that the financial systems would go into meltdown if we had no government and also that they have done their level best to beat down any extreme policies and institute good ones (e.g. pupil premium). I wonder if people will credit the lib dems with this or will they just think the Conservatives are not as extreme as they are?

delegate302 · 30/07/2013 21:39

Evening All,
I'm not sure how the leader of a party influences my vote. My preference is for a strong speaker capable of intelligent debate. I would also prefer someone with an understanding of britain's people, not just the scholarship kids at eton that made them feel oh so grounded. And this also needs to be balanced with the ability to be a world leader also.

But here's where it gets confusing. I voted lib dem and regret it. I believed Nick Clegg believed in his policies and had his head screwed on. I would have voted conservative last despite finding David Cameron a more likely 'leader'. And then, blow me, Clegg takes my vote and aligns it with Cameron, jumping right into bed exactly where I was keen that my vote wouldn't go.

While I like Clegg's manner, I feel he's screwed up by becoming a Tory gimp.

And at the end of the day I wouldn't vote for the Miliband brother (whichever one of those glaikit flunkies is the leader) I forget, and find them equally repulsive...and I'd like to vote labour but not with these donuts in leadership.

As for who I would vote for now? I really don't know. My favourite politicians are tory, my favourite politics are labour, and the most likeable and likely to represent me is lib dem.

This all leaves me confused and undecided!

delegate322 · 30/07/2013 21:38

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?

I think that the personality of the party leader is absolutely crucial - so many people seem to vote for the leader rather than the party. Saying that how many party leaders project their 'real life' personalities and how much is PR / spin? I really do believe that a strong, charismatic leader can win elections. I believe that history has shown this and that strong, charismatic party leaders have consistently fared better in elections than non charismatic leaders, however principled or trustworthy the latter may be.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

I look for someone I feel I can instinctively trust, trying to look beyond the PR. I look particularly at how an individual deals with issues which may run contrary to their own personal beliefs. A good leader and a good prime minister (to me) inspires confidence, particularly in challenging circumstances. They are also able to make complex ideas and situations understandable to a wide range of people.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

I am another who voted lib dem last time around and while Nick Clegg isn't the charismatic leader to inspire a nation, I don't believe the other party leaders meet this criteria either. I feel he has done an ok job in extremely difficult circumstances and overall the lib dem manifesto still appeals more to me than that of the other parties. Yes, compromises have been made, many off them unpalatable, but realistically democratic government is about compromise.

delegate305 · 30/07/2013 21:21

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?

It is important, but I am not sure to what extent.

Why?

Well, they are the face and figurehead of the party, it is hard to separate them from the policies. As 308 says - if your automatic feeling is that someone is a creepy slimeball, then you are not going to want them in charge of yours, and the country's, future. Ultimately it is the policies that should shape your decision, but it can be really hard to get to the bottom of those, there is so much spin at election time it takes real time and effort to properly weigh it up. Nothing annoys me more than campaigns based on criticising the other party's policies and actions, it is so unhelpful.

I don't plan to vote labour, but I found it easier to see David Milliband as leader rather than Ed. I see him as such a puppet for the unions I find little to identify with him or his party and it would take a lot to get me to consider them. In that circumstances, the leader of the party has been key in the decision, as it has also impacted on the way the party moves forward.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

As others have said, honest, trustworthy, charismatic. I like the sound of someone who is prepared to listen, but that seems rather pie in the sky sometimes, and then runs the risk of being accusd of going against their manifesto or being too changeable. A bad one, insipid, dishonest, weak. I agree with 315's comment that the qualities needed to be a good party leader are not necessarily the same as those needed to be a good Prime Minister.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

Why?
Why not?

I really am not sure. I don't think that the coalitition has been that disastrous but they have come in for a lot of flack. I am not sure any other combo could have done much better in the current climate. I voted Lib Dem last time, but am not sure if I would stay or switch, it would depend on many factors.

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