MNHQ Group 2

Hope this isn't uselessly late, but catching up with the earlier qs:

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision? Why?

Not very important. Voting for the party makes no difference to whether the party chooses to keep that leader or replace them. Because they are very prominent, the choice of leader is a factor which tells you about the rest of the party and what policies they might favour - but the other senior members are just as influential.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

Policy, policy, policy. Not very interested in personality, tbh. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown both seemed to have major personality flaws - still prefer their governments to this one. I'm very distrustful of the impressions we get of individual politicians via the media, which is mostly pretty biased, but even if I had first-hand knowledge of them I don't think it's the most important factor in choosing how to vote.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed? Why? Why not?

Not changed - have always voted Labour, though often as the 'least worst' option, and that's unlikely to change. Might vote Green if I lived somewhere they had a chance but will have the 2010 example in mind of how Tories get in when left-ish vote is split.

Oh golly, trying to catch up - sorry...

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?

I don't really see much difference between them in this respect. It's tempting to say that because I prefer Miliband's policies, I'd trust him more with my household finances but that's not very rational. They are all from privileged backgrounds and probably haven't had to spend any time living on restricted budgets, so I wouldn't expect them to do it easily... but I don't really feel that the information we get about them from the media makes it possible to make this kind of personal judgement. I strongly disagree with Cameron and Clegg's economic policies but I don't think they necessarily arise from financial incompetence.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

I think most people could manage on my family budget, which is not huge but perfectly sufficient for our needs. All three leaders come from very privileged backgrounds so clearly they would find they had to do without things they are used to having - but again, I don't have the information to judge what decisions/compromises they would make to handle that situation. I'd expect that Miliband has more experience of/sympathy with people from different backgrounds from his own, so hopefully that would enable him to adapt better to a lower income.

*How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?*

I don't think DC has lived on a budget in his life, it's very easy to claim to be frugal when you don't need to be.
Our family budget is fairly generous compared to some, we spend about £500 a month on food shopping and manage to eat out a few times a month.
Nick Clegg, I get the impression that his wife runs their household and he's told what to do.

Ed Miliband, I think could manage our finances, I think that we are broadly similar in outlook.

*Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?*

I think Ed would do best and David would do worst. Ed because I think he's been used to living within his modest means and David because he's never had to struggle for money and wouldn't know how to.

I work part time and my wages are used to pay for luxuries with OH paying all the bills, mortgage and day to day spending. I organise the household budget because I am an accountant and there aren't too many problems as I am very organised and have different pots of money all over the place set aside for different things.
once more...MNHQ

My gin spend would increase 4 fold and my wine stocks would be severely depleted. Otherwise I think that MNHQ would do a fine job.

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

None of the current main party leaders understand the issues facing women today. David Cameron is far too concerned with himself and his cronies to be bothered with issues facing women.

Nick Clegg has a powerful wife but he is still removed from an ordinary life.
Ed Miliband seems to be the most normal out of the three, although his policies don't always seem to be women friendly.

2) and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

David Cameron seems to listen to a certain type of woman, Claire Perry is one that springs to mind. Women who are a bit dim and blinkered, have a cause but not the intelligence to carry it through. I think that DC likes to feel that he's doing the right thing but only if it suits his agenda.

Nick Clegg doesn't appear to be able to think for himself, he gets told what to think by DC.

Ed Miliband has a number of strong women in his team and it seems like he does listen to them

3) Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?
The Labour Party introduced a number of policies in the past to help women work such as free nursery care for 3 year olds and tax credits to help low paid workers.

I don't trust the Conservatives, they don't speak to me.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

I struggle to manage with our finances at times because of the stupid way DH is paid (four weekly rather than monthly) so it involves a careful eye keeping on to make sure money is in the right account on the right days. I'm not sure any of them would be in the habit enough or have money worries n their mind enough to always remember to check the balances and outgoings. DC I imagine would be dire because I get the impressions he's never in his life had to think about money in terms of 'can we afford to add 'luxuries' like chocolate biscuits into the shopping trolley. NC seems less like that so would perhaps do a little better. And I think EM would be best at it but I still think he would struggle.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

As above, I think EM would cope the best but I can't rally explain why... He just seems less public school boy, less privileged than the other two. They would all struggle with one of us being paid monthly and one of us four weekly when the bills come out monthly. It takes great budgeting and control when shopping to keep within our means and it's hard. We don't have a last week of the month most months where we're really penny stretching until payday, we have that twice a month a lot of months!

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?
Ha ha, yeah good luck with Dave, even with both of us working I still have to manage on a budget of £50 a week to buy food, gas and electric. That is probably his DAILY food budget.

And then Nick Clegg?
Probably more chance than Cameron but I wouldn't count on it.

And then Ed Miliband?
Probably the best of the three but lets face it none of them are in touch with every day people. MP's should be paid the average wage. If they are only in it for the money then that is not someone I want representing me.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
He wouldn't cope at all. Can't quite imagine Dave living on Sainsburys basics and only having one bottle of wine a month as a treat.

And then Nick Clegg?
Again wouldn't have a clue.

And then Ed Miliband?
Still wouldn't have a clue.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Nigel Farage - Not a chance.

None of them would survive on it and lets face it if they did then life for the average Joe in this country would be a lot better as they would actually be speaking from the point of view of the people rather than the elite.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household effectively

DC- Would probably blow the lot on champagne. Honestly I don't think maths or restraint is his strong point.
EM - Would do ok I imagine.
NC - Equally would do ok.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

Difficult Q as our finances are currently pretty comfortable so wouldn't present much of a challenge to anyone. But I can't imagine any of the three living my life. They are too removed from reality.
I think NC might cope best funnily enough as he seems most switched on to the reality of having two small children. EM would buy a load of quinoa porridge for us as it was good for us and make us eat it - we'd then have to throw it away as the kids wouldn't like it! DC would probably buy a load of naice ham from the deli and forget washing up liquid.

But I am not convinced that thinking about how leaders manage the family finances is relevant to huw they run a country.

And ps re other leaders - I wanted to put a word in for Labour's Stella Creasy. V down to earth and determined, she'd be fab. I'd trust her with my family budget and indeed the country.

In in my thirties, a teacher, with a young daughter.

DC in my opinion is out of touch with the majority of the population. I think he's a strong eager for his party and I think he has made Nick Clegg look weak since the last election by steamrolling him somewhat but I don't think he is a good leader for the country because I honestly don't think he understands what normal people go through in their everyday lives. My husband and I both work full time, we pay minimal in childcare due to a very very kind nanny, thankfully, because we are currently borrowing money at the end of every month just to tide us over to the next payday and then laying it back. In his eyes, we probably would be classed as fairly well off. We don't claim any benefits except child benefit, we work full time. Why in earth would we be struggling? I just don't think he understands how most families live and struggle. He definitely doesn't understand my family anyway because things are getting harder not easier,

NC came across quite well in the debate previous to the last election and then his policies just did not come through in the coalition at all. I think this had mad him look weak and I don't know that I could trust him to lead the country. Again, he seems to have no understanding of how normal people or families live.

EM is the one I feel like I should like the most, being the Labour Leader but I barely know him. I may or may not recognise him in the street. He seems to hide away instead of stand up and make himself known. For this reason I don't know if he understand what people like me are going through because he never seems to say anything!

A very general answer but I'm not convinced women are heard in politics well at all across the board. It seems like a public school boys club. I don't follow politics closely enough to comment on each party individually here.

For now, I have to trust Labour the best but this is coming simply from thinking about education, which I think, at least at primary, is heavily dominated by women. The coalition are systematically destroying childhood, forcing children to learn more earlier, stay in school longer to try and have the best education system in the world but their logic is heavily flawed and everyone who works with children knows it.

The leader of the party is a factor, but a small one for me. I look at the policies, particularly on education and families and place my vote mostly according to those. I have to like the party leader though, or at least think that they're not a complete and utter tool. I have to be convinced that they are strong enough, charismatic enough or determined enough to see their policies through and deliver on their promises.

I want conviction in a party leader or prime minister. I need them to be strong. I need to be convinced that they consider the country as a whole and what is best for the majority rather than best for a few. And the less 'public school boy' the better for me. It may sound awful but I always get the feeling that they will look out for their own kind, continuing on the rich get richer. A good prime minister leads the country from strength to strength, grows the economy, supports the NHS and education, listens to advisors who are qualified and knowledgeable and uses their advice to make decisions that are good for the people.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

I would still vote Labour at the moment because I hate, hate, hate the coalition's actions so at in education. To me these changes have made Nick Clegg look weak and made the Tories look idiotic. Michael Gove has made himself and his party look ridiculous by consulting advisors and then completely disregarding their recommendations and ploughing ahead with his own agenda.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?

I think that a lot of the Mumsnet benefit-bashing threads on AIBU will show that it's quite easy to pass judgement on the budgets of others.
It's all going to be about spreadsheets, isn't it?
I reckon they would ideally all assign an aide to the task, or their wives, who I would assume have the task of actually managing their own household finances. That's not me being sexist, I'd say the same of a female party leader. I'm sure they are far too busy to think about electricity suppliers and brands of cheese.

If I had to actually entrust one of them to do it, I would choose Miliband. He seems more grounded.
Cameron wouldn't know the essentials from the non-essentials. We'd probably have the children in private education, but £30 per week for groceries.
Not sure about Clegg;I think he'd do better than Cameron though.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

The thing is that these people have totally different expectations and priorities than the majority of voters.
I think they would all mess it up for the first couple of months.

First of all David Cameron?
We are reasonably comfortable, so not a poverty-line challenge, however, I think he would be a disaster.
Much head scratching. I can just imagine him blowing the monthly food budget in a week.
If you gave him an actual breakdown of the original budget, he'd still mess up. I get the impression that he'd assume to know better/ have a better idea of the needs of a family.
I don't think he really knows the actual needs at all.
I think if it were a permanent change, he'd have a breakdown.

And then Nick Clegg?
Do you know what, I think he'd be reasonable. Under these circumstances, all eyes would be on him to make the right decisions. He'd have to think for himself.
I think he'd worry about it a lot, lose sleep about making a hash of it, and actually think it through. They would manage OK on the face of it, but his anxiety would be very apparent.

And then Ed Miliband?
He'd spend too long making noise about why everyone else did it wrong/ would do it wrong, but he'd do the sums and run it by the relevant departments for approval.
They would be OK. He'd make the necessary checks to ensure that his approach would be successful. I still think he would hate the reality of the situation though, but I'm sure they would manage.
He wouldn't moan about it, but he would brag about Cameron's breakdown!

Just realised I missed a question, I think the labour party would prioritise and look out for the needs of women.

I suspect that none of the leaders would cope with managing my family budget, particularly if they also had to cope with the responsibilities of looking after 3 children, an elderly relative and a home. I don't necessarily feel that has any reflection on their general budgeting abilities...small amounts and obvious priorities perhaps make managing my household budget relatively straightforward.

My main feeling is that the labour party would have similar budget priorities to me...the needs of the weak and least able are most important, as are activities which strengthen people's chances for the future eg education (for children and adults), and health.

Second batch of questions...
As a lone parent of 3 young children, working part time and therefore partially reliant on benefits, I feel none of the party leaders have that much understanding of my situation and issues.

However, I believe that Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg could empathise enough not to make my situation and issues worse. David Cameron would probably sympathise to my face, but would secretly blame me for being in the situation.

I think of all the party leaders, Ed Miliband is the only one who really sees women as equals, and worthy of respect.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?

He would be completely useless, wouldn't have the faintest idea about trying to rein in finances.

And then Nick Clegg?
Perhaps more of an idea but again I don't think these people really know what it's like, I guess they have someone doing their finances for them.
And then Ed Miliband?
Perhaps he would do this better, one would hope so.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
He wouldn't cope at all, bet he's never had to even do his own personal budget.

And then Nick Clegg?
I think with all of these questions it isnt necessarily the party they represent that had anything to do with it, it is purely background, where they've come from and how successful they are. Some people in high positions who also come from wealthy backgrounds would have no idea how to manage on an average income.

And then Ed Miliband?
See above.

Catching up, sorry:

1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you. First of all David Cameron?

Well, it's not panning out so well really, is it?
The whole ideology, while not quite as relevant as it was, speaks volumes. Women don't want to be 'kept in the home' necessarily. We want actual options. Salaries/ equality - zero progress. Affordable childcare - ditto. Sexualised images in daily press - not interested.

And then Nick Clegg?
I can't hear what he's saying with his head up Cameron's arse. Sorry.
In all seriousness, I don't see any enthusiasm on the subject. He's not 'putting himself out there'.

And then Ed Miliband?
I had a browse through the blog from last week. He's at least addressing the issues and acknowledging the need for progress. It may be lip service, but at least there was a comprehensive reiteration of the main concerns.
Childcare is the thing nobody is talking about in a meaningful way.

What about another party leader?
I don't have sufficient interest or enthusiasm to mention any. Nobody is making me listen for very long in that respect. Sorry.

2. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally? First of all David Cameron? Well, they are shockingly represented, and he talks over them. I imagine he pats their heads too.

And then Nick Clegg?
Low numbers, shocking.

And then Ed Miliband?
Significantly better, and he acknowledges that it still isn't enough. He's pledged to do something about it too.

3. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

The ideology would point to the Lib-Dems, but I say Labour. For me, it always has been.
EM rightly pointed out that women have been hit three times harder than men in the recent economic cuts. I trust them more highly to manage the economy more effectively. I also trust them to force equality issues to the fore.
The conservatives? Well, let's look at the current shambles and think about that..........

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
I'm sure they could all manage the household finances I currently have in place, after all I'm sure they are all capable of sticking to a budget!?

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

Could they actually live within our family budget? I shouldn't think any of them could manage that. Be a Labour supporter I'd like to think EM would cope the best, but in reality, could any of them manage to juggle everything. They'd probably get rid of my car, and then realise just how expensive public transport is. Could they manage without a holiday or seeing close family abroad because there is nothing left in the pot at the end of the month? I doubt it.

1. How well could they manage our budget?

Interesting. I bet they'd all know a few scams and favours to call in re investing some of it short term and holidaying with friends at their little places in Italy or Mustique but I doubt they'd be more creative and ingenious than we are already.

I have endless tricks up my sleeve to make our money go a long long way and give us a far richer lifestyle apparently than we should be able to manage on paper. Would they be bothered to rotate which supermarket they shop from, to take advantage of the incentive vouchers that appear if you don't shop for a month or more at a given online store?

They simply wouldn't do or buy some of the things we do and buy. I bet they wouldn't snap up a £69 week's caravan holiday in Northumberland, for starters. They'd imagine it would be choc full of the great unwashed. Too desolate up North too, apparently.

1. How well could they manage on our budget?

Not one of the three would manage on our budget. We have family help with school fees and we have a low mortgage but our annual income is the national average of around £25k pa. It has in the past been far higher and it might be again but right now DH is unemployed and I'm on a low salary during training (for something that should earn far more long term), so that's it for two adults and two children. We don't claim any benefits because... because we just don't. We could. But I feel that with the house we live in and family help with fees it would be obscene to ask the state for a top up. I wonder if, in our circumstances they would claim every benefit eligible or would they be all middle class and squeamish about it like we are .

Neither Cameron, Milliband nor Clegg would know where or how to begin to live on that amount.

Would any other leader or potential leader I can think of? I have no idea. One of my political idols has always been Peter Tatchell and I bet he could manage. Not sure whether he'd keep a family of four above water on it, though. It's only £6.25k per head per year. You have to be focused.

This is a fallacious question. All these men have independent incomes, over and above salaries at least 3xthe national average AND generous expense allowances.

The would neither manage nor cope well on our income.

(I do not believe I would. Cope very well on a household income of 2xnational average, and ours is not far above that.)

Household finances
DC - would probably remove our claim for DLA ( joke!) not sure I imagine I would be allowed housekeeping.

em - I can't imagine him doing a worse job! I have a spreadsheet and keep an eye, I'm sure he'd be capable of this.

Nc - would probably cut out anything frivolous - the cable tv would have to go!

Budget:
Dc would realise hrtax payers and the middle classes aren't rolling in it after tax, ni and living costs.
Em would probably tighten his belt and do quite well.
Nc would be fine.

household finances - hopefully any one of them should be educated enough to not spend beyond their means and prioritise essentials before frivolous purchases!

Our family budget is not under pressure (at the moment). So again, each of the leaders should be able to stay in the black (whilst shopping at Aldi!).

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

DC - ha, well he is responsible for both my husband and I having our pay frozen and overtime payments stopped (even though we still do the overtime), our increased pension contributions and the stopping of the minuscule amount of Tax credits we had. So I'm sure he'd be more than happy to be in real terms about £300 worse off a month. Might have to give up all the holidays to Ibiza and go on £9.50 trips to Skegness like we've had to but you know we're all in it together eh Dave!

NC - might try it as some kind of social experiment but he'd soon get fed up.

EM - would cope more than the others but I would imagine it would still be quite a shock to the system.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

Same as above

Any politician can come and swap life with me for a week, they'd soon be scuttling back to their Surrey mansions!

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?

Appallingly

And then Nick Clegg?

Poorly

And then Ed Miliband?

quite poorly.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Nigel LaFarge - unthinkable!

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?

Worst - where is all the money!

And then Nick Clegg?

Badly as I don't have a lot of money.

And then Ed Miliband?

Best - but still badly, as they all seem to live in an alternate universe with lots of money!

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Nigel LaFarge - again, appallingly!

Sorry, still on last set of questions

1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.

DC - I'd assume that Cameron has very little understanding of the issues facing me. I'm from up North, working class and work in the public sector. I'd imagine our worlds couldn't be further apart.

NC - I think, until he sold his soul to the devil I'd have hoped Clegg was a bit of a feminist, he certainly came accross as someone who actually cared about women's issues. Now, however, I think it was possibly all an act.
EM - from what I know of Ed, I think he will have much more of a idea about my life. He's very left wing (or certainly used to be). Which I think should give him a much better understanding of how the other half live.

2. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
   DC - well we've seen him in action haven't we - calm down dear pretty much sums up his attitude to women in politics. He has reduced the number of women in his cabinet, it's quite worrying actually. I assume the Tory party is very sexist.
   NC - there are very few women in top roles in the Lib Dem's which is a shame because, well, it's just not very liberal is it?
   EM - 40% of the shadow cabinet are women, he regularly speaks about women's issues and representation of women in the media, I'm happy with that.

3. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

The Labour Party the most for the reasons above and the Conservatives the least because I honestly think they only care about people like them. White, rich men in London.

1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you. First of all David Cameron?

Badly - doesn't have a clue about people on low incomes.

And then Nick Clegg?

Possibly more aware, as he seems less of a silver spoon in the mouth type.

And then Ed Miliband?

I think he is probably the most aware.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Can't thin of another name apart from Nigel LaFarge - he wears mustard trousers, therefore doesn't have the slightest clue about most things!

2. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?

First of all David Cameron?

High profile as the man would feel like he is ticking the right boxes.

And then Nick Clegg?

He wouldn't have to worry about this as much as DC, as he isn't really in charge! But quite well.

And then Ed Miliband?

Quite good, but again they have to do this.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Nigel LaFarge - appalling.

3. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

I don't trust any one them. I would trust Labour the most as they represent more my demographic and Tories the least as they care more for middle class and upper class people.