Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

Yeah. Feminism. Curer of all ills. Answer to all wrongs. Demoniser of all men. Excuser of all women.

I know plenty of sahm/working mums/sahd/working dads.

Because of feminism challenging traditional male/female roles.

'The point was (for the hard of understanding) that women shouldn't necessarily be the ones to do the childcare purely by default, just because they are women.'

They aren't. Which backwards circles do you mix in? I know plenty of sahm/working mums/sahd/working dads.

The point was (for the hard of understanding) that women shouldn't necessarily be the ones to do the childcare purely by default, just because they are women.

Great post Annie.

'Yes, I thought you might.'

Because you don't actually have one.

SigmundFraude - feminism has little time for gender-stereotyped jobs. This means women being free from any obstacle which may prevent her from taking up a job, even one traditionally done by men and seen as dangerous, and men being free from any obstacle which may prevent him from staying at home. Not just equal employment laws, equal pay etc etc, but also the removal of societal expectations and any criticisms of a) career choice or b) ability to perform in a given career based solely on gender.

This means that any man or woman who works in those dangerous jobs, does so completely freely, and this would also be the case for any parent staying at home; no being told they won't fit in, or aren't good enough or strong enough or nurturing enough because of their gender.

That is what feminism is trying to change - the expectation that someone's genitalia is an indicator of their ability to do any job, including SAH parenting. How could you ask for a more equal situation than that?

On another track: What baffles me about all these MRA is the idea that the problems men are having are caused by women.

Yes, there are many areas where men may feel disadvantaged, such as being mocked for being a SAHP, or not getting mental health support. But it's not women causing these problems, it's the other men who are in charge. We wish we did, but we just don't have any kind of power to disadvantage men in any way. And so we also lack the power to help men. We barely have the power to help ourselves. Surely it's not too much to ask that if men have problems with way society is set up, they should change it themselves? Why on earth do you expect women to do it?

Feminism recognises that the patriarchy is harmful to men as well as women. Men are expected to be good earners, to be strong - both mentally and physically, never ask for help etc etc. Feminism would change this too, and allow men and women to just be who they are and do what they're best at.

Yes, I thought you might.

I think you do have the choice. I had the choice.

Missing your point

Feminism is trying to challenge the defined sex roles in society which say the woman stays home with the children. It's not trying to take the choice away from anybody - I'm a sahm by choice. But it should be my choice not just the default position because I'm a woman.

'Men suffer more work related deaths than women because more women are home looking after the children. Feminism wants to change that.'

Which part is feminism trying to change? Cos I very much doubt women will be queuing up to be in the 'more work related deaths' category.

Or is it the 'more women are home looking after the children' part, cos I doubt the very many women who actively want to stay at home and bring up their kids will thank you for it.

Fail.

Thanks Doctrine. :)

And of course, that 2 women per week are killed by their partners/ex partners per week.

Start talking about countries like South Africa and the figures are far higher...

Cheerful

Sabrina, well said. Men run the bloody world, and still they moan.

Just wanted to interrupt to pick up this point about Mike's evident annoyance with regard to the apparent disparity in personal taxation contributed by men and women.

The facts are:

More women than men earn under £20,000pa.
Vastly more men than women earn £30-500,000pa.

Take a look at the infogram here - Number of taxpayers by gender and income bracket. To work the infogram, click in the circle beside the salary brackets. Alternatively you can look at the figures the infogram is based on in table 3.11 on page 16 of the Personal Incomes Statistics 2010-11 (HMRC) here.

At the same time, women?s unpaid labour is worth tens of billions of pounds to the economy every year ? unpaid carers (the majority of whom are women) contribute billions every year.

Sorry, I missed that part about me! Blistory it's okay for you to talk about it, I don't mind. I didn't do anything wrong and I'm not ashamed.

Vadark I don't know if bitter is exactly the word I'd use. Am I sad about what happened? Of course. Do I dread explaining every time I go in for an exam that if I freeze up or start to cry it's all right, I'm just having a flashback and they should press on? Definitely.

But of course I realize that most men are not like him. I was raised by a wonderful man and am married to one now. And hopefully DS will be one too.

You may know some women who are out to get pregnant and screw men out of their money, etc. I've never met one personally but I accept they may exist.

But if I can accept that the majority of men are not the type to force themselves on a sobbing, bleeding 19 year old, surely you can accept that the majority of women are not money grubbing semen-stealers?

Valdark - you came on here saying women had more rights than men, did you not?

Were you forgetting that men hold 99% of men's wealth and earn 70% of it's income? That 80% of Board positions int he Uk are held by men? That only 146 out of 650 MP's are women? That 1 in 4 women are seriously sexually assaulted in their lifetime?

You are obviously mistaken if you think that women hold all the cards.

"And then you have the cheek to come on here and moan about the rights of fathers."

And people don't come on here and moan about the rights of mothers?

Goodbye everyone. Nice talking.

"Don't tell me what to do. You demand facts but produce none of your own. You claim to want equality but don't demonstrate it. You post confused and incoherent posts yet expect engagement. I want no further part in this farce."

Goodbye.

"Vadark I have had choices 1&2 taken from me, brutally. So no, those choices do NOT always apply to women as well."

I understand and genuinely feel for you as a fellow human being. It is awful and I can't express how angry this makes me feel that someone could do this to you. I have no time to make you believe this.

But not all men are like this and you need to remember that.

Don't tell me what to do. You demand facts but produce none of your own. You claim to want equality but don't demonstrate it. You post confused and incoherent posts yet expect engagement. I want no further part in this farce.

"Oh, I see. Men are vulnerable and can be easily led.

And here I was thinking they are just as capable of rational thought as I am."

All humans are vulnerable. Didn't you know?

All these choices apply to women too. So why do so many women choose to have sex and then deprive Father's of their rights? Perhaps women should learn to plug it up??? Is that what you'd say to a man? Probably.

The point is that society says that it is all the woman's problem. Single mothers being scapegoated by the government as the downfall of society?
Happens all the time. And then you have the cheek to come on here and moan about the rights of fathers.

Vadark I have had choices 1&2 taken from me, brutally. So no, those choices do NOT always apply to women as well.

"You understand her bitterness ? How fucking humane of you. How about recognising her generosity in sharing that information in an attempt to open your eyes ? How about recognising that she knows that not all men are rapists , only rapists are ? Sorry, Cheerful to talk about you but that one rankled."

Hmmm, you are resorting to tactics that show you are frustrated and crumbling. Talk about facts please. I spoke in recognition of an appalling crime and you turn it around on me. You are as transparent as glass.