How did people survive before wftc, ctc etc?

"However, we all had only one pair of shoes as kids and only ate out once in a blue moon to the Berni Inn. We had hand me down clothes, toys only at xmas and birthdays, sofas were re covered and people lived within their means generally."

That's how my family lives now, apart from the children getting new clothes (from Tesco) as hard to find hand me downs. And we're on an OK income.

I tend to agree with flatpack and nceguy.

I grew up in a nice middle class home with a pony and holidays abroad and a big house.

However, we all had only one pair of shoes as kids and only ate out once in a blue moon to the Berni Inn. We had hand me down clothes, toys only at xmas and birthdays, sofas were re covered and people lived within their means generally. Plus, you didnt get this sort of entltled envy I see around - theyve got X so why can't I? You cut your cloth, you didn't expect things you hadn'r earned or paid for.

Houses were a lot cheaper so it was a lot easier

The government didn't use to take as much of your money so you had more take-home pay!

I disagree Mumzy. Bringing down house prices would trap a great deal of families in negative equity and many others will see their largest asset depreciate. They will then tighten their belts since they will see this as evidence the economy is still in dire straits and create a self fulfilling prophecy.

What we all need is a long period where house prices stagnate but wages in real terms increase.

Mad house prices with corresponding high rents has become the bane of this country. The labour government allwed this to happen because it bought in taxes (stamp duty, household goods, building works) and helped fueled the bubble economy creating a feelgood factor for many. I agree without WTC many households would not survive its a sad situation but bringing down houseprices and rents would be a start.

Housing costs - if food costs had increased at the same rate a pint of milk, I think I remember correctly, would now cost a fiver.
Energy costs - electricity prices for example have tripled, at least, in the past 12 years ago.
Petrol costs - petrol prices have nearly doubled since 2004, in conjunction with the loss of useful affordable public transport

Since for most families these are three of the largest items of expenditure, I think that answers the question.

Also foodbanks - surely not very long ago there would have been outrage at the possibility of the poor needing foodbanks?

I think that things will change, already are surprisingly quickly. For instance the recent recommendation that hospital inpatients should bring a relative along to take them to the toilet, wash them, feed them.

Agree with the point about rampant consumerism. Wasn't quite the competitive consumerism either. No-one took the piss because you had the 'wrong' label on your trainers, it was more likely to be the other way around. Nothing worse than being accused of showing off or flashing the cash...

Life was different

We didn't have many pairs of shoes and lots of clothes

We would never have eaten out, the thought of buying a drink whilst out would be unthinkable. Books were from the library. We didn't have central heating. We didn't have trips to the cinema or zoo or what have you. Birthdays and Christmases were a pack of felt tip pens and done plasticine

If a family had a car it was an unusual luxury

The contrast with today's rampant consumerism is vast

The problem isn't not giving lower-earners no financial support. It is giving them support in a system that is affordable and doesn't discourage people from working.

Tax credits have failed on both counts. Personally I believe they have contributed to the mess we have today.

When I was growing up (70s & 80s) people used to take on extra work for cash-in-hand to make ends meet. If you were any good at fixing cars, decorating, or could drive etc there was usually a friend or neighbour who would be looking for someone to do a job for £50 here and there.

Nowadays we are all encouraged to report our neighbours if we see them earning undeclared income.

If you needed to work and had children, either a neighbour looked after them or you left one of your other children in charge. Nowadays people would be quick to report families where a child of 11 or 12 was looking after their 5yr-old sibling in the evenings and all through the school holidays.

If you had FSM, it was often the only proper meal children had during the week. A cheap packet of crisps and two slices of bread to make a sandwich with was a fairly typical evening meal where I lived.

If you want a return to the days where lower-earners get little or no financial support, then you have to accept the return of the crappy way of life that went along with it. Many more children coming to school hungry, and taking over child care duties when they get home.

They didn't, hence the reason they bought them in.
Well survived.....yes, but they had evil workhouses and people went without food to feed their children.
Some lived in squalor, i don't want to see those days back!!!
I may only be in my late twenties, but with the stories i have read, i'm glad people don't live like that anymore.

Meglet. That's what lots of people have always had to do when they have had young families. They struggle on and cope. I think it was harder for a lone parent in the past. Lots of women (even widows) had to give up babies for adoption if they didn't have family to help.

My own DSis brought up two DC alone and lived on benefits until the youngest was at school. There were no nurseries in the rural area she lived in and she didn't drive. She used a CM after school and family all helped her in the school holidays so that she could work when they were older.

When my eldest were small there was no pre school education in rural areas even if you had any spare cash. DC had a few hours at a playgroup 2 or 3 mornings a week. They started school the term after they were 5 so very few mums had any chance of work outside of home.

Lots did work though. I did 'outwork' from a local factory. I used to sit until 2 or 3 in the morning so that it could be all packed away by the time the DC got up. Those factories are all closed so that's not even an option now.

My mum and grandmas all worked when their DC were small. Poor families have always needed an extra income from somewhere. The old TV image of Dad coming home to a smiling wife, slippers and a cooked dinner really was only for the middle classes.

I'm not sure off the time scale and you may well be right. But I do remember being very shocked that two sets of relatives who admitted to being 'well off' couldn't believe their luck! They were given over £90 per month for their new born's first year. Some just struck lucky I guess.

nagynolonger.

Tax credits weren't generous to begin with, or should I say the founder Family credit. It took a long time and the labour gov to inflate and include childcare element.
When it first started it was basic and no childcare, certainly not paid to high earners, it was relatively low to support low income families, not middle classes.

I'd be screwed without WTC + childcare tax credits. An hour in nursery for 2 dc's was more than my hourly wage. I work PT but still get tax credits to pay for the childcare.

Thanks to these benefits I have been able to survive as a LP and give the dc's a fairly decent upbringing.

So, I assume LP's were screwed before these things existed.

When I had my first child the local private nursery charge £2 an hour. You just told them what hours you wanted. It did not have to be mornings/afternoons/both and how many days.

I think that it is way too expensive for parents that need private nurseries now.

The free nursery hours seem to have made thing worse. Children who may have not gone to nursery as SAHM are now have places. This in turn means more nurseries are needed and the ones that are there hike up prices because of demand.

I am very thankful I don't have nursery age kids.

If we had no money we wouldn't be able to pay our debts. Therefore we'd be another Greece. We are meeting our debt obligations.

Of course we have money. Just not enough.

We still have the 7th/8th largest economy in the world. The problem is that we are spending like we're the 3rd/4th biggest!

So yes, right now we can meet our debt obligations but we continue to borrow and slowly interest is mounting. If we do nothing our Greece moment will come. Not today, not tomorrow but one day.