Tory scum make lying, insulting and patronising response to workfare petition

Err, no.

I responded to a poster who said she works for a volunteer centre that refuse to work with these types of schemes because it goes against what volunteering is all about. Which I agree with.

I have no desire to work with volunteers that don't want to be there, and I certainly wouldn't want people that don't want to be there coming into contact with service users that I have a responsibility for.

If you are going to have a dig at me, please at least try to follow my posts and those I was responding to properly.

Because if they dont show up and you report them they will be sanctioned. Zero money for two weeks or whatever. So how do they eat? Pay the bills?

Right, so what was your last comment about me being comfortable with reporting people and causing them to lose money all about? Still

Long term unemployed (and I mean from before lack of jobs was a problem) often need more support than is offered.

There isnt a clean cut line between the capable and the disabled. There are people who do not qualify for ESA or extra support, but are still not capable of holding down a job or a placement.

Its this category that I assume are most often accused of being idle. Are they deserving of having their benefits cut?

It is a safety net. There are already conditions attached to benefits. Workfare is a step too far. And forcing someone to volunteer stops it from being voluntary. Personally, I would not wish to be associated with any charitable organisation which thought that was ok.

So you are comfortable with reporting someone for non compliance and causing them to lose their money Clouds?

Huh?

aufaniae I can well believe that there are flaws to any scheme set up by government and that the way these things are implemented don't always make a lot of sense. But I do agree with the principle of it, and as the thread was started about the response to the petition, I had to say I didn't think it was bad.

If people genuinely don't have enough to eat because they are put on these schemes, then obviously I'm not going to agree with that, but the benefits won't be stopped if people do what is asked of them. I think it's right that there are conditions attached to receiving benefits, we can't just give out free money for nothing. And I agree that the job centre could do a much better job of supporting people, but I don't know anyone that has ever needed the job centre to get a job. They do it on their own, and the only unemployed people I know are unemployed through choice.

CloudsAndTrees the point you are missing is that the way this scheme is set up, it will overall be of great benefit to employers, and none if any to the workforce.

It's a massive wasted opportunity (to make the job centre useful in supporting people who are looking for work!) and will cause a lot of unnecessary suffering (e.g. people not having enough money to eat, the bottom line).

So you are comfortable with reporting someone for non compliance and causing them to lose their money Clouds?

Hardly very charitable.

Glad to be of service

Thanks! I just found our local one, and it is indeed free! I will be getting in touch, thank you!

No it's free. Contact your local vc and get a registration form and there you go! The opps will go onto do it and interested vols will apply. Peasy.

Emimemmerdale (brilliant name!) I know nothing about volunteer centres. Going to have a google now but anything you can tell me about registering a charity would be much appreciated. Is it expensive for the charity?

letter from VE re 'workfare' type placements

People who actually want to volunteer can come to volunteer centres where they are interviewed and directed to organisations who have registered with us who want volunteers. It's called brokerage. JCP people who send us 'volunteers' are simply trying it on. If they want us to help them get people into volunteering they need to do it properly and pay us for placing people (in return for us doing a ton of paperwork for them!) We refuse to co-operate with such schemes as it is against everything volunteering is about. I have had calls from such 'providers' in the past two years trying this on and getting quite nasty when i've refused. Volunteering England did a big paper about it all. I'll see if I can link to it.

Read your link, don't see your point.

The job centre has nothing to do with volunteer work when volunteers actually want to volunteer. They can just go straight to the charities they are interested in.

ivo.org/volunteercentresouthderbyshire/posts/jobcentre-plus-registered-volunteering

I manage a volunteer centre and we are refusing to see people who phone up and say 'the job centre says I've got to volunteer' got to volunteer really doesn't make sense !
Oh but clouds is right, you can get voluntary work any time of the day, night, month, year, week. Whenever and pretty much whatever you want - that's our USP.

OMG no one can be this stupid surely. You know damn fucking well you are talking crap. Google Cait Reilly who was ALREADY volunteering at a museum while on JSA and told to stop it and "volunteer" at Poundland instead.
This case has been featured on the news which proves you are posting to be deliberately inflammatory.

Talking crap, stupid, and being deliberately inflammatory? Really?

Just because one voluntary position that was featured on the news wasn't suitable for doing in conjunction with with JSA, that means that there are no voluntary jobs that can be done in your chosen hours?

I think it's you that's talking crap. I'm wondering if you really are that stupid if you think that every voluntary job that exists can only be done in certain hours. Because whether you have the sense to see it or not, there are plenty of voluntary positions that can be done in hours that suit. I have two of them, I should know!

Aufaniae, in some cases, obviously the company will benefit most. In others, it will be the benefit claimant. Each case, and more to the point, each candidate, is different.

CloudsAndTrees I'm afraid you've not answered my question.

I asked you who you thought was benefiting most from workfare in those examples.

The store has been sending home paid workers early and using workfare workers

And when the stores involved do this how the fuck are the workers working there on low wages and tax credits supposed to get the extra hours to cover the changes to tax credits that are coming!!!!!!!!!

A company I work with took on a Workfare person.
We knew what we wanted. We knew they would leave us for a paid job.
The DROSS we got sent, let alone the fact that 7 out of 11 did not even turn up for the interview (with the DWP paying their travel) was shocking.
At the fourth round we got a really good girl who is now in paid employment through us.
Unfortunately NEVER again.

But I utterly disagree with companies like Tesco being allowed to get their Christmas extra staff for free.
Or workfare people being used as Marshalls at the Diamond Jubilee parade.

Boycott Workfare has consistently pointed out that if people are placed in mandated unpaid work on threat of losing even the tiny income of £53/week benefits, they are in a position where they can easily be exploited. This account from a young person in mandatory ?work experience? at Asda shows that companies are quick to take advantage of this situation. Workfare workers were forced to work Christmas eve and New Year?s eve while paid workers were sent home:

I?m one of the DWP work experience lot at Asda. The store has been sending home paid workers early and using workfare workers. The store has somewhere between 10 and 15 people on DWP work experience. Not long after my group started work paid staff started mentioning people being sent home early while work experience people were kept in (and a second group of five or six work experience people was actually taken on a couple of weeks ago). At the same time everyone from the managers and team leaders down were talking about large overspends on stock. All of the work experience people that I know personally are working christmas eve and new year?s eve and while I?m not exactly in a position to know exactly what the rosters are for those days it seems pretty unlikely that they?re going to have normal levels of paid staff working on extra pay when they apparently can?t afford to pay them all normal wages in the course of a regular week.

Tescos: ?Why would we pay you when we can pick up the phone and get more unemployed people who have to work for free??

The following account was posted in the comments section of the Guardian website:
I personally know a fifty-six year old man who worked at Tesco for 40 hrs a week for 6 weeks for no pay. He said he was given the worst job, constantly filling freezers in the hope he would be taken on. After the 6 weeks were up the manager asked him if he would like to stay on for some extra weeks, my friend asked ?with pay?? The manager said why would he pay him when he can pick the phone up and get more unemployed people who have to work for nothing of face sanctions meaning loss of ALL benefits for up to three years!

My friend wasn?t alone, he was part of twelve extra staff taken on to cover the xmas rush, no one was given a job at the end of the xmas period.

He told me they had all worked really hard and were gutted they were abused in such a way. The worst was one day he had to throw out lots of food one day over the use by date. He asked the manager if he could take some home as he was having to eat more due to being active all day. The manager refused saying if he gave him free food he wouldn?t come through the front door and buy it!

I swear I will never shop at Tesco ever again.

CloudsAndTreesWed 30-Jan-13 16:50:34

Plenty of volunteer work can be done around a full time job. I know loads of people that manage it. It is very possible to be available for work while volunteering. There are countless volunteering opportunities, at all different times of the day and of the week.

It is complete bollocks to say that people on JSA are supposed to be actively seeking work and therefore cannot work or study. If people honestly believe that type of crap, then that is exactly why work experience programs are needed.

OMG no one can be this stupid surely. You know damn fucking well you are talking crap. Google Cait Reilly who was ALREADY volunteering at a museum while on JSA and told to stop it and "volunteer" at Poundland instead.
This case has been featured on the news which proves you are posting to be deliberately inflammatory.

Sorry does the fact that they are being paid, getting benefits, negate the old 'working for free' argument?

ClytaemnestraWed 30-Jan-13 15:48:43

And you've kind of proved a point that there was work that you could do out there, but you didn't want to do it. Until you had to do other work you didn't like, so you went out and got a paying job and came off JSA. Isn't that a good thing?

The chatline job just happened to be in the paper at that time.
I WAS APPLYING FOR MANY OTHER JOBS BUT NO ONE ELSE WAS OFFERING ME PAID WORK.

SOME OF THOSE SAME PLACES WERE HAPPY TO OFFER ME THREE MONTHS OF UNPAID WORK THOUGH.