Police commissioner elections: I'm spoiling my paper

My sister made a good point: "this isn't truly democratic anyway because nobody asked me whether i wanted the change in the first place, let alone what that change would look like..." I'm pretty certain the Conservative element of the Coalition weren't elected for their manifesto commitment to police and crime commissioners. And they certainly haven't listened to the numerous opinions telling them quite vocally that this isn't what people want.

Once again, it's a 'be careful what you wish for' situation- except I can't recall wishing for elected police commissioners! What I mean is this odd idea that we all want red, raw 'democracy' in all things. ( Do you call California's foray into this? where The People were given the direct vote about whether public taxes should be raised to pay for increased municipal services? The People voted 'No' then suddenly the bins stopped being emptied. Democracy in action.)

I don't want a publicly elected police commissioner because, although I consider myself to be a reasonably engaged, well-educated and committed public spirited person who always votes and tries to take an interest in such matters, the reality is I have no idea what qualities make a good Police Commissioners! I do not have the skills necessary to make this 'decision' and do not pretend to.

In the same way I don't want parent-lead schools or patient-lead hospitals. Self-interest ahoy! I want these things to be lead by properly trained, as apolitical as possible grown-ups with an accountant's heart and a vicar's sense of public duty. Not the bloke with the most populist sound-bite.

For all those saying they don't know who their candidates are:

www.choosemypcc.org.uk

I don't know who the candidates are and the first i new of these elections is when ballot thing was posted through my letter box.

There was an item on the lunchtime BBC news about these elections today. Then the local news had Tony Blair spouting support for John Prescott. So maybe expect to see more media coverage from now?

This was an ill conceived idea that has been rushed through with little thought to the consequences. And that's from someone who, on November 15, will effectively be voting for my new boss.

Policing has its issues, but was never so broken it couldn't be fixed. The candidates here are, all but one, pledging to put more officers on the beat. That simply can't happen and it's a pledge they will not be able to fulfil without raising council tax significantly (which legislation actually protects against). Do they seriously think that chief constables and police authorities have not already been working creatively in the past three years (since the government's spending review) to do just that - cut back office staff to protect the number of officers on our streets?

I'm all for democracy, but the membership of the current police authority includes councillors members (elected by the public) and independents (apolitical, recruited from their communities). You don't get much more democratic than that. It also safeguards against a maverick individual bulldozing through completely inappropriate policies.

I am now faced with the prospect of resigning on the principle that i do not wish to work for a politician. Unless one of the independents in this area are elected of course....

UKIP is the furthest right standing here -- obviously not ideal but I think I'll take the risk on this occasion, and learn my lesson if he does get in. If there was a BNP candidate I might think differently.

One of the reasons we haven't heard much about it is funding. Normally in e,ections royal mail do 1 free postage to every household from candidates. In my PCC area there are nearly 3m people. How can a candidate with no funding get round to all those? Even if they do 3 public meetings a day with 30 people in attendance (which candidates have been doing here) they're only going to speak to about 1,000 people. Doesn't even make a dent.

Normally activists would be campaigning. But they are not motivated as no-one wants these elections or this post.

In the past I have advocated spoiling papers. I think if you don't vote you don't get a say, but should be able to make the point that you're participating, that you care.

In this case with turnout being so low it does risk far right parties getting in. Remember it's not normal voting system and funny things can start happening when you get to counting 2nd choices

Not an easy choice

We have one retired tv presenter standing and 2 party people. I dont support the Coalition on very much. But I will vote next Thursday because Chief Constables have played God all my life. And it needs shaking up.

I hate the fact that this is party political. The Labour candidate is the only one to have bothered trying to get in touch, and his policies look ok, but along the top of his flyer is some absolute rubbish about this being our opportunity to pass judgement on a crap coalition government. That is emphatically not what this is about, and I can't vote for a candidate who thinks it is. Aside from the party candidates there are two most unconvincing independents, so I shall be sharpening my red pencil and spoiling my ballot.

I agree - what a lot of poppycock.

I'm ex-police and hear that this new commisioner will be paid £50,000, have their own office at hq portished, have a PA paid £22,000 plus expenses like using their own car to travel around the region, to attend meetings.

So, the police have had budget cuts imposed but can still afford £72,000 per annum? All proves the point they can find the money if they really want to!

have listened to the interviews by the candidates and they all want the same thing - i.e more visible policing, cut down asb, repeat offender targetting, etc, - the police do this already - or should be doing it. The only difference between them all is that one of the candidates is a woman.

I've written to David Laws MP to express my concern over wastage of tax payers money. I've yet to recieve a reply.

We've had no leaflets either. I disagree with the involvement of party politics in running the police so I'm afraid I was feeling quite apathetic about the whole thing.

But now I've looked at the candidates I will definitely be voting, if only to keep one particular charmer from the British Freedom Party/English Defence League out.

Here we have received the postal vote but not ONE leaflet for any candidate!

I was to see that the 'candidate' were affiliated to political party tbh. No member within the Police should be chosen according to his political views ever.

So we have no idea who the candidates are, no idea what they propose to do, so I am assuming we are suppose to choose them according to their political views .... which have nothing to do what so ever with running the Police in a efficient manner.

Unless... they expect these people to then take decisions according to their beliefs, not to the law and chose to put resources where they think it's better. Let's say to tackle youth crimes because don't you know that all teenagers are awful and not support DV issues because family is our strongest assets, single women with dcs are just benefit grabbing people....

The issue with not voting or spoiling the vote is that it will not change a thing to the result of the vote.
So better imo to vote to try and have 'the least bad' of all. No idea how I am going to do that as we have no information about any of them here.

Bramshott - Yes, so that they can all see and agree that that particular vote is spoilt.

Im going to vote- not for the independent person though, as apparently they are a mason, and being finacially backed by other masons.
I can't see how being a member of a secret society is a good thing for the person I/c the police.

I'm not voting and neither is DH. This is in itself a decision. Neither of us thinks their should be elections as it cannot be anything but a politicisation of policing. Therefore we are not going to participate. Even spoiling my paper feels like I'd be agreeing to the process in some way that I'm not comfortable with (and then there's the fact that they tend to interpret this as stupidity or confusion rather than refusal, which infuriates me).

I'm writing an email to my MP (and ccing in the home office) just to make it clear that it's not laziness or fecklessness on my part; I am refusing to vote in an election that I don't agree with. If enough people do that, then it'll be difficult to interpret the low turnout as apathy. It should be clear that people have made a well considered choice not to participate. Therefore the candidate elected by a small minority of the population will have a pretty shoddy mandate.

I don't believe that I have a duty to vote either. I refuse to lend legitimacy to this process. And it isn't just about party politics; I do not believe that we should elect police commissioners.

all i know is i get a leaflet shoved through my door and i don,t no anything about it do they think the public are that stupied that were going to vote somthing we don,t no about. from what i understand we have to vote someone to decide about matters of the police the question is should one man get all that power.

I've spoiled mine already (postal vote).

The Labour bloke will get in, but I really wish there was a None option.

Dan - I was told at school that all candidates have to be shown all the spoiled ballots - is that true?

I like the tip, Dan, I shall try to amuse :)

I?m going to be working at ?the count? on Friday.

May I ask, when you spoil your vote, please write it in green ink as it gives us something to laugh about when we pass it round.

What annoys me about this is that my polling card arrived before I knew anything about this new role. Since it came I looked online and have found out about the role and the candidates in my area, I can't imagine that many others have done this, even if they have the tools to do so.

Where have the public adverts been shown? I watch a bit of TV and haven't seen anything about this. Why haven't I had information sent to me from candidates and about the role in general?

Democracy only works if people are given the information they need to make an informed decision on who they believe will be best in that role. This whole PCC thing seems to be ill-conceived and badly pubicised. Why has it come about?

I agree that we shouldn't be put in the position, but we are. If 90% don't vote then the 10% that did vote (i.e. the jolly family) decide on your behalf. We should ask our MP's why they decided to do this, challenge them etc but for now, do your research and vote. It is in our local paper (which is free).

How are the people who don't have internet access supposed to decide who to vote for? I know most homes now have internet access but there must still be a large number of people, mainly elderly (I guess) who will not know who to vote for.

What will happen is 90 percent won't vote at all. What kind of democratic process is that? Can democracy operate in an online only environment? I wonder. My vote is for no party politics in policing. Sadly I was never asked that question. Notice we all told the govt to eff off with their elected mayor idea when asked.